hot take from farmer frank mulling over spicy livestock numbers
the answer is probably that people keep horses for reasons (transport, law enforcement, gimmicks, petting zoos) and people only keep dairy cows FOR DAIRY

cattle is carbon neutral so the thought was moot to begin with. it's not like grass disappears into narnia when it dies.
cattle/dog/cat feed is not comparable to human foodstuffs, its entirely different.

>>16509186
>cattle is carbon neutral
they're carbon negative

>>16509161
Do you know what a food supply chain is?

>>16509186
Most of Brazil deforestation is for having space for cattle and onions production that then will be fed to cows and pigs. That already is impacting the rain pattern of the country as there were fires in fucking Amazon Forest, a once always wet forest.

>>16509161
Carbon neutrality is a meme. The Earth is a closed system with respect to chemical reactions with sole exception of hydrogen, helium plus some meme stuff in the upper atmosphere due to cosmic rays. So carbon neutrality is always a relative measure. And, coincidentally, when you make the topic political, it suddenly makes that measure the most inconsistent thing pulled out of someone’s ass. Not to mention that many important processes are in direct opposition to carbon neutrality. Take forest fire control. Some dumb Califag politician says human fires le bad and carbon positive so the fire department has to let nature emit even more carbon from uncontrolled fires. But at least nature doesn’t have to pay le carbon tax!

1. Horses, dogs, and cats aren't ruminants. (Sheep and goats are, thoughever.)
2. Alienating pet owners is far more politically suicidal than alienating cow farmers.
3. He's conveniently ignoring beef cattle which are an OoM higher than dairy.

>>16509161
>implying nobody says cats are an environmental issue
Anybody who seriously says that is a retard who shouldn’t be talking about the environment. Cats are one of the most destructive invasive species, they kill billions of native animals. Horses and dogs pose environmental risks too

>>16509161
>comparing all the horses to just dairy cows
Typical twitterite

>>16509211
One of the most retarded things I've ever read.

>>16509192
All life is carbon negative because all life is carbon based. Thats why the Earth's atmosphere which started as over 10% CO2 has had almost all of it's CO2 removed to the point that life on Earth was on the verge of ceasing to exist, all of the various carbon based life absorbed all that atmospheric CO2 gas and sequestered it in the planet's surface in solid forms. It was only through sheer luck that Europeans invented technology which functioned by rereleasing the CO2 gas to the atmosphere and got Earth away from the absolute baseline of atmospheric CO2 needed to sustain life.

>>16509161
>mainstream environmentalism hates agriculture because it mostly consists of a bunch of midwits who grew up in suburbs where food magically appears in grocery stores
>capitalists have subverted their movement to steal land from farmers
I'm unironcally pro-sustainability but modern environmentalism including the climate change movement is a complete pysop consisting of a bunch of very naive, emotional people being used as useful idiots by the (((usual suspects)))

>>16509161
What about the 28 million beef cows?

>>16509161
The feminist wing of PETA is massively against dairy products because they self identify with dumb dairy cattle. Its part of the rape fantasies they masturbate to constantly.
Imagine presuming that you're the equal of a stupid farm animal, its practically akin to considering yourself as inanimate as a rock.
When are the geologists going to start a rock rights activist group?

I support a mass culling of household pets. Purely to combat climate change, of course.

It seems to me that most dogs are just a second couch pillow with no purpose.
Literally just a waste.

>>16509263
>Cats are one of the most destructive invasive species, they kill billions of native animals.
Cats are like women they are evil but they understood that being cute will prevent anybody to attack them.

>>16510478
Not everybody. There are a handful of incomprehensibly based individuals out there who do what must be done

That's right. Pet ownership is a morally indefensible luxury of a decadent society.

>>16510543
wait, are gays actually based?

>>16509161
>Whats the scientific perspective on this question?

As of 2024 there's only 6.6 million horses in the US.
There's 87 million total head of cattle in the US.
The Scientific perspective is he's deliberately omitting information and a faggot. He should sign up for Canadian Healthcare.

>>16509161
>Dairy
Faggot wants to lie about figures.

>Eating 70 million people worth of food
Faggot wants to lie about the issue.

Dogs and cats don't release methane and nitrous oxide in anywhere near the same quantities as cattle and don't pollute waterways with their waste.

>>16509192
>>16509211
>>16509339
Retards.

>>16510676
says the person praising government as a god

>>16509176
Oh... its only for food, so it doesnt matter. Food doesnt matter, unlike transport which does matter. BTW, im an importantness expert

>>16509161
i don't see the problem at all if people are cool with the 8+ billy psychopaths already on this doomsphere

>>16509192
>they're carbon negative
also delicious, we should raise twice as many of them

>>16509161
we should start eating the horses too, their meat tastes great
haven't tried cats or dogs but considering what they're being fed by their childless owners I would stay away

>>16510326
I support the opposite. I think everyone should own at least one wild animal for mass conservation a la Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep / Blade Runner.

>>16509161
Nobody cares about horses so the propaganda won't stick. Also, Shill Gaids is already adding shit to the diets of cows to "counteract" this.

This thread is full of retards.

>>16512660
Yea it’s pretty retarded to believe that cows are responsible for climate change.

>>16512805
50% of all posters on /sci/ are below 100 IQ, they have dumb thoughts and dumb beliefs

>>16512679
Is this a schizo Indian trying to convince people that only Brahman cattle are real cows?

>>16512805
when is elon musk going to invent electric cows and save us from global warming.

>>16511876
the electric sheep is one of my favorite parts of that book, the way the guy talks about it cracks me up

>>16513626
its true though

>>16509161
A cow is like five times the size of a cat and has three more stomachs than a horse

>>16514507
No, a cow only has 1 stomach, it just happens to quite large with several different chambers.

>>16514513
Don't tell me about cows, lad.

>>16514518
You need to be told the actual reality since you are attempting to pass off quirky little lies as such.

>>16514443
It’s not. They’re both just domesticated aurochs, aka cows

>>16514524
Yea and retards and geniuses are both just types of people, but it doesn't mean one isn't clearly intellectually superior to the other.

>>16509176
>Bro hobbies are more important than food
Shut the fuck up you retarded nigger

>>16509195
There are always fires in all forests due to accumulation of biomatter.
The solution here would be to stop cutting down the rainforest not get rid of cows, you dumb nigger.

>>16514556
But if you stop cutting tress, there will just be more biomatter shed by more trees resulting in more accumulation and more wildfires.

>>16514553
lmfao why are you talking like me?

>>16514586
trees are a renewable resource. cut as many as you like, they always grow back

>>16514541
The point isn’t that one is better retard, the point was that one isn’t a cow which isn’t true

>>16514556
>>16514586
The wet parts of the Amazon in question shouldn't burn much at all. It would normally have been far too wet for that, many rainforests haven’t substantially burnt in thousands of years
>>16516557
Sure if you don’t clear cut the whole place and turn it into a desert or replace actual timber with palm oil like the Brazilians and Indonesians are doing

>>16516578
neither brazil nor indonesia are deserts.

>>16510326
I completely support that initiative.

>>16509176
I'll get rid of my cows after you cull your pets. Deal?

>>16517679
They’re working on it

>>16510825
>>obsessing over statistics on meaningless things
tell that to >>16509161

>>16518414
That will be replanted and grow back quickly, a desert is defined by it's dearth of annual rainfall. Adding CO2 to the atmosphere will make it regrow faster and healthier than it ever has before

>>16518439
>That will be replanted
Not if it was deforested for farmland which is what happens with most of the land cleared in the Amazon. The point of the endeavour is to not replant it
>and grow back quickly, a desert is defined by it's dearth of annual rainfall
Take away the trees and the rainfall decreases, that is why desertification happens following deforestation
>Adding CO2 to the atmosphere will make it regrow faster and healthier than it ever has before
Plant growth can’t just exponentially increase as CO2 does, there are other limiting factors like soil quality which is notoriously poor in rainforests. Even if it could the Amazon has existed for millions of years at times when CO2 was higher than now, it would not grow faster than ever before

>>16509161
>look up actual number of cattle in US
>multiple websites say number about 90 million
>OP's number is 9 million
>OP off by order of magnitude
>realize OP is talking about DAIRY COWS ONLY
wow, so that was intentionally misleading
now that OP is revealed to be a liar, lets do a quick survey! Be honest now:

Did you fall for OP's tricks and lies?
Will you be more skeptical in the future?

Also OP if you're still ITT. What was your intention of "retweeting" a 6 year tweet that was intentionally lying and misleading? Did you really fall or it and were simply reacting like a simple animal, or were you trying to do something more here?

>>16519242
>wow, so that was intentionally misleading
no, you just have poor reading comprehension due to your low iq

>>16509268
the other cows are liquidated and eaten retard

>>16509161
>Le dairy
What about all the rest of the cows moron?

Also people DO complain about the environmental impact of all other livestock, this retard just wants to create a narrative of being a victim

>>16520302
And they don’t exist eating and growing and belching methane before they’re slaughtered? Does the breeding stock not exist? You are retarded

>>16509161
Horses and feral donkeys fuck up conservation land all the time.

>>16518439
This is probably the most delusional post on /sci/ right now.

>>16521069
name any location on the planet that has been turned from a rainforest into a desert as a result of logging

>>16521345
Much of Madagascar’s wet forest has been replaced by desert/savannah following clearing

>>16521372
false

>>16522443
True but you’re gonna pretend its false because that wouldn’t fit your views

>>16522537
There are no deserts in Madagascar

>>16523303
Shit can’t argue with that. I guess Madagascar is all just one big homogenous jungle like in that dreamworks movie

>>16523885
>I don't know what a desert is
The absolute state of this board

>>16524006
two things that you can guarantee about people who are screeching about desertification in madagascar:
• they don't know what a desert is
• they have never been to madagascar

>>16524006
>>16524093
>I don’t know what desertification is
Desertification is the process by which land becomes increasingly dry and degraded over time, usually following deforestation. The meaning of desert as defined by mean annual rainfall (which by the way would mean the southern regions of Madagascar in your pic are desert) is irrelevant. The point is not that the rainfall decreases to the point of being the same as an actual desert, it is that the area becomes ecologically and agriculturally barren as a result of drying and erosion that it is functionally a desert. Whether you call it savannization or desertification makes no difference, the process is the same

>>16524006
I don't know about Madagascar but we have desertification process going on in Chile and Brazil because of misuse of water mainly for farming basedbeans and cows.

You can deny how much you want but it does not change the fact that important people will burn earth if it means they will get +0,0001% of yearly profit.

Here is the source for Chile: https://www.profor.info/knowledge/chile-forests-trees-and-conservation-degraded-lands
Here is the source for Brazil: https://redesrurais.org.br/avanco-da-desertificacao-no-brasil-o-enfrentamento-a-partir-dos-saberes-tradicionais/

There are plenty more articles covering it, sure.

>>16524125
>deserts are ecologically and agriculturally barren
wrong, they're filled with unique species adapted to those environments.
>agriculturally
harvesting trees is agriculture

>>16524881
>wrong, they're filled with unique species adapted to those environments
And if the area was once a rainforest and turns to eroded barren land within a couple decades then there aren’t any of those unique species adapted to that environment are there? We’re not talking about the Sahara with all its native animals, we’re talking about an area that was forest recently and is now dry red dirt. You’re retarded
>harvesting trees is agriculture
Which now can’t be done because you clear cut the place and there’s no natural tree recruitment to continue harvesting in the years to come

1. There's 87.2 million cows in the USA
2. There's 6.7 horses in the USA
3. Dogs are a native species to the USA
4. Cats are widely considered a massive environmental issue. They're one of the worst invasive species on the planet. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

>Whats the scientific perspective on this question?
This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

>>16509333
How?

>>16525071
Sorry, I don't speak fuckwit.

>>16509161
>Food for thought
He's saying we should eat horses? Got it.

So what about non dairy cows?

>>16514522
it's not a lie, you're just being a pedantic retard

>>16525247
S•y milk comes from plants, not from vegan cows

>>16509211
Fossil fuels are not part of the short term carbon cycle.

>>16509211
>And, coincidentally, when you make the topic political
All science is political. If something is uncontroversial and inconsequential, it isn't fucking science. It's photography or math. Fuck off and die.

>>16525539
'fossil' fuels are based. the provide energy and at the same time they enrich the environment by making plants grow faster and healthier. the faster humanity pushes atmospheric CO2 to over 1000ppm, the better off we will be.

>>16525731
Nice try lizard. You just want the whole world to be a tropical jungle. Go bask on a rock scaly

>>16525211
Horse meat is pretty good.

>>16526457
Its very popular in Japan

>>16509161
probably all the land used for grazing

>>16509161
Interesting how he chose to include just the number of dairy cows, instead of the total number of cattle in the US which is closer to 90 million

>>16526473
Beef cattle are already proved to be carbon negative, see the PDF in >>16509192

>>16528361
The person you were responding to didn't claim cows weren't carbon negative.

Also the primary ecological impact of cows isn't "carbon".

Also that PDF doesn't look at the processing and delivery of cattle products to market post slaughter.

>>16528418
Shhh anon, he’s retarded. You’ll upset him by telling him his defense is for an argument that doesn’t exist

>>16510830
>glosses over law enforcement
>uses word “aristocratic”
Leddit pseud detected

>>16528361
They might be carbon negative, but they're good for nature in other ways. Its irrational to expect any living creature not to be carbon negative because all life ultimately depends on photosynthesis, humans are the rare exception, no other species can enrich the atmosphere with life giving CO2 the way humanity is able to

>>16531465
>grazed pasture full of weeds and invasive grasses
>degraded land literally right next to farmland being passed off as wilderness
But more plant so must be better unga Bunga

>>16531596
I'm going to continue consuming dairy products daily and voting for whoever I believe will be the most pro dairy.

>>16532380
>the most pro dairy
Okay, commie.

>>16532380
You will drink soi milk and vote for one of two lying politicians like the dirty little bug eater you are

>>16509225
>beef cattle which are an OoM higher than dairy
this is the actual issue

but the fact remains:
any environment/climate talk that doesn't mention India and China, is not a serious discussion

>>16510546
Back you have to go.

>>16530022
Yes, because we all know horses are the best technology out there. God whatever would we do if it wasn’t for the horses we have no means of getting around more efficiently than a horse. It totally isn’t just an aristocratic symbol. I mean I know you’re trolling at this point, but like God it’s hard to tell these people are so stupid.

>>16533063
Pretty sure India's all good on the beef cattle front.

>>16533063
India's per capita emissions are fucking nothing. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>16533063
You are wrong.

>>16533208
>>16533209
the fact that those two memegraphics show completely different statistics only proves how fake and gay they are

>>16533095
India has the highest rate of per capita emissions on the planet.

>>16534613
>the fact that those two memegraphics show completely different statistics
Yes, those are completely different statistics. As in they are measuring different things.
>only proves how fake and gay they are
A and B therefore not!A isn't how logic works, you fucking idiot.

>>16535684
Actually Palau does. USA is #14. India is #124. Out of 206 countries and territories, to be clear.

In summary, don't do drugs.

>>16535684
lmao

This is double-plus ungood! A new paper shows that hurricanes are NOT getting more intense. How can we unperson these dissenters for wrong-think about the consensus?
Never forget the rallying cry of our cult:
THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!

>>16536636
>In fact, since the 1980s, the frequency of intense TCs in the SIO has increased, especially the frequency of category 5 level TCs52,53, which is a result of global warming.
The study found the *destructiveness* of hurricanes in a single basin has decreased because *where they are forming within that basin has changed*, but their frequency and power has increased because of global warming.

You agreed, the science is settled, right?

>>16536636
>>16536674
On a related note, do climate change deniers ever get tired of lying with research they didn't read and then immediately taking Ls when someone takes 5 seconds to fact check them or is this a fetish thing?

>>16509161
Bill Gates hates cows for whatever reason

>>16536636
>chart isn’t about the data discussed
>only shows hurricanes from one small area of the USA
Political journalists should be forever barred from publishing anything about science

>>16536674
If hurricanes were really on the increase as your end of the world fantasy stories claim then why were all of the strongest storms in history in in the 1960s & 70s, over half a century ago?
you have zero knowledge about climatology, you've never studied the topic and your rhetoric is retarded, if you'd ever managed to pass even the freshmen level of an atmospheric physics course you'd know that cyclonic storms are powered by the potential between the surface level and tropopause, so any global warming would necessarily result in fewer hurricanes rather than more.

>>16536735
they just hate meat because it makes you strong

>>16537619
>If hurricanes were really on the increase as your end of the world fantasy stories claim
I'm not claiming anything. I'm citing the paper you brought up, bitch. The science is settled.

>>16536701
Your foremost "experts" have said we are ten years from the point of no-return since 1989.
I just need you to admit you are in a religious cult. Everyone else can see it, but it would be a test of your honesty.
You will, of course, fail this test. But everyone else will notice.

All "wild" horses in North America are actually feral (like pigs) and are a foreign and introduced species. If you really care about the environment, grasslands, etc. they should all be exterminated. Ideally, slaughter them all and sell to Japan and yuropoor places where they eat horse

>>16539499
>Your foremost "experts" have said we are ten years from the point of no-return since 1989.
We've crossed several points of no return. It's simply a matter of what won't return to where.

As an example, coral is turbofucked, which you'd know if you weren't living in denial.

Incidentally, I don't need anything from you. You bring me amusement simply by existing. Dance for your masters, dumbfuck. It's fun to watch.

>>16539840
>coral is turbofucked, which you'd know if you weren't living in denial.

I just got back from a scuba diving trip and the coral is all in excellent shape, as good as or better than it ever was. I go on these trips over Christmas almost every year and observe the situation directly, you get your information from a bunch of fake and gay twitter headlines and have no idea what you're talking about.

>>16541760
>I just got back from a scuba diving trip and the coral is all in excellent shape
Snorkeling isn't scuba diving and the plastic coral at whatever piss-filled play pen you paid too much to swim in isn't what I was talking about.

Kill the horses dogs and cats. Pets were a mistake.

>>16541760
>I went to a place with some of the least impacted coral and it was good
I went to the southern GBR last year and it was in absolute dogshit condition. Your “direct observation” is a drop in the bucket

>>16535695
>Actually Palau does.
Palau's population is 18,000 so it's a microscopic blip on the map compared to India. Either way, your logic is retarded. If I proclaimed an independent microstate from the comfort of my living room and then proceeded to burn a drum of crude oil in my backyard every day, I'd be the highest per-capita polluter in the world within a couple of years.

>>16542525
>Palau's population is 18,000 so it's a microscopic blip on the map compared to India
Yes, and?
>Either way, your logic is retarded
My logic is the impact of countries should keep their population in mind, because it's unreasonable to expect 1.4 billion people to have less emissions than 300 million people (even though they do for 300 million people in particular because those 300 million are so shit).
>If I proclaimed an independent microstate from the comfort of my living room and then proceeded to burn a drum of crude oil in my backyard every day, I'd be the highest per-capita polluter in the world within a couple of years.
Counterpoint: If India fractured into 4 countries of equal population and pollution, they'd all put out less than 15% the pollution the USA does in absolute terms, despite literally fuck all changing about how much pollution they put out.

If you're measuring shit without keeping population in mind, you're an absolute fuckwit.

Also if you are burning a drum of crude oil in your backyard every day, you should probably fucking stop.

>>16536018
The Antarctic segment must just keep on freezing and building up year after year, eventually a massive shitberg is going to break away from the Antarctic shore and float around in the southern ocean for a few years.

>>16531465
Based ranchers are so much better for the environment than retarded environmentalists are

>>16509161
The communist Jews just don’t want you eating red meat. That’s literally it. Red meat consumption makes you based and red pilled.

>>16535684
that's not a feces concentration map
that's an earthquake

>>16547857
"""environmentalists"" are invariably people who live in urban zones, which are the most polluted and least environmentally productive areas on the planet. instead of doing anything to fix their own disgusting patches of land they always instead try to blame other for environmental problems.

>>16525073
Grade A response, fellow intelectual
have a upvote kind stranger


*tips fedora*

>>16509161
> from California
Opinion Disregarded.

>>16554333
Redditoids always revel themselves because they all seem to think that casual use of profane language is "cool"

>>16555818
Not a redditor, but I'll be sure to wash my mouth out with soap and watch my language going forwards so that I don't offend the delicate sensibilities of prim and proper lady such as yourself.

>>16554333
If it makes you feel any better, that reply was to the wrong post.

>>16547857
Ranchers are overblown welfare queens who soak up land and money while contributing less than 5% of the country’s meat supply. They are glorified hobby farms who bitch and moan and pretend to be important whenever someone plants useful timber or a wolf gets released somewhere

>>16556044
wolves are a pest species, they were wiped out for good reason

>>16558252
Ranchers are a pest species sucking up all that money and land for their larp

>>16518439
You're an idiot.
The biomass stores the moisture in that region, not the soil.
>>16521345
Central China
Patagonia
Southern California

>>16553115
That's called a "straw man"

>>16558252
Ranchers are a pest species

>>16558827
no they aren't, cattle ranching improves the land it's done on, science has long since proved that. see >>16531465

>>16560257
It can under specific regenerative practices which the vast majority of ranchers do not engage in

>>16509161
Forget horses. Why does no one hardly ever mention war and the military?