Jeep is the generic standard. The JK platform of Jeep (the older one) is absolute garbage. You are getting a crude military truck with a cheap interior, a rough ride, and poor handling and steering and lots of noise. You are trading a lot for off road capacity.
Jeep has a solid front and rear axle which is good for off roading, and very shitty for being on a highway, so if you are driving hours to get to the woods, the car will wander off the highway without constant correction.

The JL (newer) platform is less shitty, but still the same solid axles and cheap interior. You are also paying for the Jeep name and image too.

I do some very light off-roading (dirt roads) but sometimes dirt roads end up being just beds of small rocks, so I really want full-length skid plates, all terrain tires (tires matter a lot), and, if possible a locking rear diff, but that's more of a wishlist.
In terms of conventional interiors Kia/Hyundai (its the same thing) is on top right now for non-premium brands but you can't get skid plates or differentials, even on the pickup-trucky (but car based) Santa Cruz, all you can get is the tires (which you can buy yourself), and a locking center diff (which some nissan suvs also offer).
Toyota is a popular choice but you are again paying for the reputation of quality embedded in the name so the interior is cheap, lazy, and shitty, and they always trail; the domestics in comparison tests for off-road ability and usually for suspension quality.
Lots of people get a Tacoma or a 4Runner, the problem is the platform is ANCIENT unless you get the brand new generation, which just got rolled out for Tacoma, and is coming soon I think for 4Runner (suv vs open bed).
The old one is like buying a truck from 2004. It is going to be rough and unrefined.

I think Chevy is best now for off road and refinement. But they don't sell a non-truck off-road SUV (they would make a lot of money if they did).

The Chevy Colorado has a decent interior and ride according to car magazines, the issue is again its platform is slightly old (early 2010s?) but the engines are newish and the off road gear is top notch on the ones with that package specified, and its less pricey than the Toyota.

Chevy interiors are always nicer than Ford. Ford rides well, but is prone to needing repairs and cheaply built, there's bronco sport but again its kinda an old platform (2017 ford escape) and its smol and the interior is trash.

Moving up to ladder frame pickup fords, the Bronco seems ok, the interior is newer, the engines are ok, but it only comes in convertible so the noise is off the charts. Its too bad they don't sell a normal suv version of Ford Ranger pickup like they do in Australia (everest)

What I really want it a Kia Sportage or Hyundai Tucson with a genuine off road package (or aftermarket mods) but they don't sell that (they would make a lot of money if they did).

There's also Honda, but the Ridgeline is on an ancient platform and they've just let it rot basically, if you want a larger SUV and have money the new Pilot has an off road trim with skid plates and all terrain tires and a pretty decent engine (reliable non turbo) and a sophisticated ride and steering (but slightly firmer than Toyota or domestic I think).

I wonder if I can buy like car-based SUV's that people have modded for off road use so I can get the tires, differential, shocks, and skidplates I want cuz you can only get those things in a normal SUV with the Bronco sport and 4Runner (new 4runner will be decent, but old platform is terribly rough and outdated), or they really just expect you to get pickups (ford Ranger is OK but interior is ~ and platform is 12 years + and needs to be replaced for a more modern ride.

Chevy Colorado is a little newer, probably the best option for trucks. Why it doesn't come in an suv-ized version I will never know. And of course full size trucks can come with all the off road goodies, but that's way too fucking big for forest roads and I nor you want something that fuckhueg to drive and park.

>>2790963
I got a 3rd gen 4runner for $2200. I did some routine maintenance on it (cost less than $200 in parts), runs great and is 4x4. I have yet to take it out into the wilderness but she is running very reliably on road.

With how little I have into it I am not going to be afraid to use it. 390k miles.

Before I go far out I will look at what spare parts will be recommended to with me to prevent me getting stranded.

>>2790963
Falkor here ran me AUD$8500 and has been a complete gem.
>room for luggage but not for multiple passengers
>enough space to sleep in the back
>lifted suspension for those rough remote roads
>nothing but comfort and respite whether in the heat, cold, or pouring rain

It's an Holden (or Chevy) Colorado with some aftermarket mods of course

>>2791008
Again the problem is the Toyota 4Runner is based on a platform from 2004 and the suspension, electronics, all of that is too. It's rough and crude and you make a big sacrifice for outdoor capacity.

Pre 96 Toyota Hilux's

>>2790963
XJs are great and reliable. they absolutely will need some TLC because since they are so reliable, most people have not replaced much of anything serious by the time you get it at 200k miles. luckily, the parts are cheap and it likely won't be anything really elaborate. the only issue that can arise when wrenching on them is rusty bolts, but if you are somewhere that cars rust, you should be used to it and have the know-how to work with that. you just need to research the head issue that 2000-2001 XJs came off the assembly line with and avoid those or fix it once you buy one, it's not really a big deal if you have the time and ability. one of the benefits of getting an XJ over the TJ aside from a huge price difference is that the XJ is way lighter. a tad over 3,000lbs for a solid front axle 4x4 is great, and doesn't make the motor feel gutless if you don't go too big on tires. even on stock tire size and lift if your only mods are front and rear lockers you will be surprised where it can go. usually when you have a problem with an XJ it's just annoying little things that need to be replaced, an oil leak, etc. usually nothing that will leave you stranded, more like "my shit is falling apart but she still runs." that pretty much sums up 20+ year-old jeeps if not maintained.

>>2791009
I don't get it, who said anything about a Toyota

>>2791016
2 different anons posted toyotas

>>2791020
Oh, that was confusing because I didn't so it was hard to connect the dots I guess

>>2791022
Anyways my point is most anons will just go "get an ancient jeep or toyota" and those anons are WRONG
Yes, those cars are decent off-road, but everything else about them is heavily compromised, crude, and rough.

>>2791023
Ok ok I follow now, and I agree

>>2791024
If you have MONEY and don't do anything too extreme (just dirt roads like I do but not like intentional off road courses or rock fields for fun), you will be fine with a non-ladder frame (aka an suv not a pickup), but you will need some mods, chiefly among them tires, and then skidplates (otherwise you WILL damage the differential and other parts over bumpy shit), and a locking rear diff for mud and water crossings and crazy ice and those shitty unmaintained roads where there's two big grooves and it's all just mud.

>>2790963
>used market
It’s been a sellers market for years now. Most people are selling to dealers (Carvana, Car Max, give me the vin, Driveway, etc.) and going with the highest bidder rather than dealing with the miscreants that they’ll meet via private sales. This created a bidding war for used vehicles.

It used to be that people would just bend over and take whatever the dealership would offer. Now there are several options. At the same time, browsing for used vehicles as a buyer became so easy and accessible that it became a pain in the ass to sell one. You could list a brand new Ferrari on FB Marketplace for a dollar and people would offer you fifteen cents.

I love my 2003 Toyota 4Runner Sport 4X4 and it's V8 motor. It is big enough to carry all my gear and very capable off road.

My RAV4 is FWD but it works alright on gravel forest service roads

>>2791027
so what am I supposed to do then? not buy a car? And there's still plenty of cars on marketplace that are being sold by people who don't seem to be scamming sub 5k.

>>2791023
im not looking for a luxury ride man, Im just looking for something that I can bring out innawoods and won't shit out on me. If I save 4k because its "rough and crude" I'll still do it. the only thing thats dissuaded me from the jeep is the shit highway steering that another anon mentioned

Get a ranger baby

>>2791046
nothing i suggested was luxury
i simply said the interior quality and features of korean cars is way above the others but they don't offered any outright offroaders and the other brands all have downsides

if you don't mind a pickup, chevy colorado makes the most sense

The chevrolet suvs (traverse and equinox) can be had with an offroad package - but only 2024 onwards for traverse and 2025 for equinox

>>2791051
ranger is ok, but the interior is meh, the platform dates to 2011, and for retarded reasons they don't sell a non-convertible top suv version in the us (we just get the bronco, not the everest)

>>2790963
I'm in a similar situation anon, I'm planning months long road trips to the US where I'll travel across the country to all the beautiful nature so I need something off-road worthy that can still cover long distances without falling apart (I don't care about comfort though, and I'll stick to byways so no crazy speeds). I need to be able to sleep in the back of it too by removing/folding the rear seats. Something very reliable and easily repairable. No bells and whistles. Also a 5k budget, maybe 6/7k if I really need to.

So far I've primarily been looking at 90's and early 2000s Toyotas 4Runner and Tacoma (with a shell). I've also looked at 90s Jeep Cherokee XJ, there seems to be quite a few on the market but I don't know what to think of them, I've heard so many bad things about Jeeps, but according to >>2791015 the XJs are fine...
I'm a total newbie when it comes to buying a car, what should I be on the lookout for? Rust is an obvious one but beyond that, if I take it for a test drive at various speeds and it runs fine, am I good to go? Even if something fails afterwards it isn't gonna be expensive and hard to fix? What's the worst that could happen to an XJ, the head gasket failing?
Rn I don't know a lot about fixing and maintaining a car but as soon as I pull the trigger on one of these I'll get all the tools, common spare parts and documentation needed and I'll learn.

>>2791053
>if I take it for a test drive at various speeds and it runs fine, am I good to go?
Also I figured doing an oil change alongside all the other liquids, just to be safe and get a clean start.

>>2791046
lol that only happens if something is out of alignment/worn and/or you have really aggressive all terrain tires, and can happen with plenty of other cars.
>>2791053
if you aren't planning on doing any serious offroading, but instead just going down dirt roads and simple stuff, you would probably be much better suited with a 2000-2006 tahoe/yukon or suburban.yukon xl. the only real advantage of the jeep xj is being a very good offroader, the downside is that it's actually not that spacious inside in terms of headroom. it's much smaller in person. it also does not do long highway driving as comfortably because it gets blown around by wins, and it's just generally more crude suspension wise due to the solid front axle. the benefit of those gm trucks are that a gazillion were made so finding them and finding parts is a cakewalk. still one of the most common platforms on the road today, literally any mechanic worth a damn knows them inside and out. the pushrod v8 is compact and simple with tons of room in the engine bay to wrench, and minimal wiring/hoses in the way. you can replace the alternator in literally 10 minutes and they have very few serious issues if maintained decently. it's mostly little things like an alternator going out, a sensor, wheel bearing etc. as long as you get one that was maintained and runs good, they are pretty bulletproof up to like 250k miles until any real serious maintenance needs to be done. they might burn a little oil but that's easy to monitor and add oil. one of those would drive like a dream long distance on the highway, they're pretty smooth with good tires and if they are in alignment. plus despite being a v8 it's not doing many rpms at highway speed so you aren't burning nearly the amount of fuel you might assume. they're still all over the road for a good reason, and for 5-7k you could probably find one that was garaged and driven by some boomer with well under 200k miles on it..I own both a Jeep XJ and a GMT800 pickup

the problem with buying a toyota is that you will not get the amount of car you would by spending the same on something else because of toyota tax. so for $5k, sometimes even $10k you're getting one that is either clapped out or hasn't been maintained well because lots of idiots think "toyota doesn't need to be maintained because it's bulletproof reliable." many fools have fallen victim to this. they ar reliable, but plenty of them have had issues, and a lot of original and even 2nd owners don't have to repair anything, but by the time it's got 200k miles and nobody has ever replaced anything, it will fall on the next owner. hell, tacomas had frame rust recalls during much of the 2nd gen run, and most people never got the frame replaced in time before their limit ran out. so those trucks look nice on the outside but the frame is literally rusting from the inside out, I had a family member that had this issue. tldr, motherfuckers are literally asking $15k for toyotas with 250k miles because they don't know shit about cars and idiots will pay that then cry later. I don't hate Toyotas at all, but unless you're a richfag the value is no longer there, hasn't been for a decade. you might as well buy a new toyota instead of a used one.

>>2790970
>The Chevy Colorado has a decent interior
>Chevy Colorado
GMC Canyon is basically the same truck but has nicer off road stuff

>>2791009
That's a feature, not a problem.

>>2791043
Cars are a necessity, so of course you have to buy one. And you’ll always be able to find something at the low end of the market. It’s just that value has plummeted. It’s never been worse to be a poorfag.

>>2791080
>Cars are a necessity
lol lazy fat americans. i get by just fine walking and riding my bike to town. and before you say im some cityfag i live in rural canada so get fucked. you dont NEED a car. and most of you could use some exercise anyway

>>2790970
>Chevy interiors are always nicer than Ford. Ford rides well, but is prone to needing repairs and cheaply built
For what it's worth, Ford interiors look cheap, but I've found that they hold up really well. My '20 Ranger spent the first 40k+ of its life as an Avis rental and still looked new when I got it, similar age/mileage Colorados I looked at while shopping were already starting to show wear and tear, especially on those rubber steering wheel controls. I had a '14 Fiesta ST from new until '22 and that held up really well too, still didn't have any squeaks, rattles, etc. after 8+ years (which is more than I can say of the '09 Si I also bought new, that thing was a buzz box after 2 years) and I'll add that Ford interior parts are really cheap too, which is nice - I finally managed to break an interior panel after 7 or so years with the Fiesta, knocked the cargo cover peg off the hatch area trim and had to replace the whole side panel, and it was only like $35 or something and a 10 minute replacement.

I will also say, however, that not all Fords have great ride quality. Rangers like mine, and especially FX4s, ride like shit new and the cheapo stock shocks blow up by 50k miles. Putting a $500 set of Bilstein 5100s on mine absolutely transformed it though, thing rides like a BMW crossover now.

>>2791009
You are a massive faggot

>>2790998
>390k miles
impressive

Don't get a heep, my brother in law switched from Toyota to Jeep and went through 3 of them before going back to Toyota.

>>2791093
so you never go out of your own town? at best a couple of bumfuck towns over? got it! not everybody can live the NEET life. Tell mom I said Hi.

>>2791112
skill issue

>>2791115
Yeah, they should have hired more skilled people to design the wiring in the XJ's

>>2791117
out of all the common issues on a XJ, wiring/electrical is not one of them. sounds like your boy got some clapped out ones that were bubba'd by the previous owner. then again... "going through 3 of them" before giving up sounds like one of those people who don't know how to wrench so they just keep swapping cars in hopes of finding one that they don't need to maintain. classic 17-year-old car owner technique.

actually, you're probably talking about the model years with the renix system I assume. still by no means overly problematic.

>>2791120
Ah yes the guy who rebuilt a Pajero fgrom the ground up doesn't know about cars, must be it, cope harder heeps suck.

OP here, wont have time to thank everyone

>>2791093
btw this cunt is not me. Please stop sending your smug emissions all over the country and across the border to our american friends.


also I think there is a dealership autist in this thread trying to get me to buy the latest SUV offroad 60k bullshit

honestly I think I will just get whatever toyota4runner or jeep XJ that seems like a steal or one thats already prepped for overlanding. I already see a bunch on marketplace for 5k or so. ANd yeah as one anon said theres a toyota tax I fully believe that.

But there is still stuff being sold that works for under 5k in private sales.

>>2791053
this is awesome. I'd love an update if you go through with one

>>2791008
this is pretty cool thanks for sharing

>>2791127
go anywhere way out where hardcore offroaders go in the us and you will see 5x more jeeps than anything else. hell, even jk and newer.

>>2791158
>hardcore offroaders go in the us
Or go watch actual 4WDers from around the world that aren't jeep fanboys.

>>2790998
Hilux Surf any gen > gen 3 > gen 2 >>>> everything else.

4Runners hands down outclass any other off-road vehicle except maybe a HMMWV.

Top Gear definitely proved the Hilux was good tier.

>>2791008
incredible truckbed sex happens in there

>>2791195
not really :[

>>2791060
Thanks anon, I looked it up and the GMT800 options indeed seem to fit the bill. I've added them to my list.
>if you aren't planning on doing any serious offroading, but instead just going down dirt roads and simple stuff
I don't know if logging roads/trails are considered serious off-roading? Maybe if we start involving rain and mud? I'll make sure to get some of the best all-terrain tires money can buy, and have traction boards on hand.
Would adding a skid plate to one of these old Chevy Tahoe be overkill for this type of riding?

>>2791200
>I don't know if logging roads/trails are considered serious off-roading?
no, off roading is going on trails marked as such that have even rougher surfaces
Tahoe is too big. Forest roads are narrow. Tahoe is a FULL SIZE TRUCK made into an suv. You want something smaller.

>Would adding a skid plate to one of these old
don't get something that old, if you don't have a lot of money get something smaller but don't get something super old it will be rough and shitty and require a lot of repairs

If you are gonna invest in skid plates you might as well get a normal SUV and add aftermarket skid plates vs buying a truck if you are only doing forest roads and not deliberate off roading.

>>2791160
people in different regions use what's common there DUH! tell us something we don't know. nobody is a jeep fanboy, you're just the opposite. I listed other good vehicles and you only said "MUH TOYOTA GOD JEEP SHIT!" the funny thing is you're talking to someone who owned a 2nd gen tacoma TRD Sport, and you probably don't even know that they had common headgasket failure for a couple of the model years and the frame rust issues. lmao. I sold mine because the frame was starting to look sketchy and this was before the replacement program was initiated years later. it wasn't even my vehicle that I took offroad much, and I'm in the southeast where we don't have much problems with rust at all, and it STILL failed the chisel test. stop being a blind fanboy and attacking people who have owned multiple platforms and are simply telling the truth about common problems of each, some people can't afford to get screwed because some guy online was talking out of his ass about shit he has no 1st hand excperience with.. I literally said that plenty of toyotas are good, but not worth the price. if you think a 280k miles toyota with 3x previous owners is a good buy for $15k you can't be helped.
>>2791200
anything 4wd with proper tires for the terrain will do most of what people consider "mild" offroading. where you need serious rigs are things like crawling over rocks and advanced trails where you need lots of articulation... and you aren't going down those without a solid front axle, lift, bigger tires, etc. people tend to paint too broad of a stroke. sure, it's good to have more truck than you need, but it's also not good to have something that drives like a purpose built trail rig on the highway for more than 30 minutes. it's just hard to tell what kind of terrain you will be on, but 4x4 with at the bare minimum front and rear lockers + good tires is going to be capable. logging roads were made for big trucks. only place an XJ would shine is on advanced trails

>>2791202
the government literally uses full sized trucks for their forestry service and other branches. unless anon is playing on dedicated 4x4 trails meant for recreation, he will be fine. hell, you have full size trucks on plenty of those too.

If you want something under 5k without paying keep/toyota tax look at grand vitara Chebby tracker

I'm looking for an SUV, new or not-too-used. I drive on minimum maintenance roads fairly often. I like to fish and walk. My 2015 CRV died in the middle of the road on Wednesday night at 90k miles. I've been thinking about a new car because the problems my car has been having. When I bring them up to the mechanic, they go away, but I'm gaslit about them ever being there. I'm interested in a similar car, just one that won't die on me.

>>2791210
look anon, I've been on plenty of narrow ass roads and I just know you don't want that shit.
also again, full size trucks are incredibly crude
I don't think anon needs something super sophisticated

Not to mention TONS of roads innawoods are super narrow and if you need to go by another car you don't want to do that in a full size truck or suv, you want something small.
Not that a compact pickup even is small!

>>2791218
subaru forester

>>2791009
Yeah its a huge problem that Toyotas from that generation are actually reliable and easy to wrench on. You can't even get it serviced at the heckin dealership anymore!

>>2791290
The issue is that it is rough and crude and noisy and offers few features and outdated electronics. Nobody is saying Toyota isn't reliable or can't handle off-road, just that otherwise its a terrible piece of crap car that's totally compromised.

>>2791114
Ok sweetie, the rest of the world have these funny things called "trains" let me try and explain it so you can understand, its like, a lot of cars, chained together? right? goes from one place to another incredibly efficiently and cheaply, you can go from the center of a major city, to the mountains in 45 minutes, and here's the thing, when you get to your stop, you WALK to you desired /out/ destination, instead of a carpark next to some benches

>>2791296
Are you a woman? Who else gives a fuck about "features" and "electronics"? And Toyota highway road noise is nothing compared to heeps from that era.

>>2791299
>i live in rural canada
>trains that go everywhere
pick one anon
Yes, the rest of the world has trains, not the US nor Canada.

>>2791302
true, sad, but true, i wish you the best moving forward

>>2791202
>get something smaller
Like what? Keep in mind I need to be able to sleep in it.
>>2791209
>only place an XJ would shine is on advanced trails
yeah you're right anon, plus I watched a few videos and the XJ is actually smaller than I thought on the inside, so not ideal for me

>>2791306
chevy equinox or chevy traverse (traverse is huge)

>>2791309
I'll look these up, thanks. I'm guessing the first generation ones. Are they reliable?

>>2791211
Not a bad rig. The old Xterras are a good rug if you can find one not beat to shit. The 2000s type Chevy Blazers are also underrated

>>2791243
AWD on the Subaru is unreliable and expensive to repair. They are more expensive to maintain because the tires can't be rotated the same as 4wD vehicles and the tire pressure is more critical because it can fuck up the AWD.

>>2791302
The US and Canada have passenger trains anon. It's just almost cheaper and easier to fly because Europe doesn't have nearly as many municipal airports as the USA.

>>2791317
>Europe doesn't have nearly as many municipal airports
to be fair, its because it wouldn't make sense given the distances, and border crossings, could work within Schengen, but, overall not worth it with out robust train network
makes much more sense in the US

>>2791316
>AWD on the Subaru is unreliable and expensive to repair. They are more expensive to maintain because the tires can't be rotated the same as 4wD vehicles and the tire pressure is more critical because it can fuck up the AWD.
That's the price you pay for having an AWD system that isn't a complete joke. Other AWDs are barely more than a placebo, if you actually need four driven wheels you either get a Subaru or a real 4WD, or MAYBE one of the few Fords with a clutch-based AWD system. (Bronco Sport Badlands or Maverick Tremor, neither of which is cheap.)

>>2791329
AWD is homosexuals who don't know how to drive in snow and never go off road. Rally cars use them because they are in dirt roads going at high speeds and don't give a shit about replacing tires and transmissions every race.
Off road vehicles need low gears and slip differential and locking rear differential and if you don't understand why you're not actually going anywhere that requires an off road vehicle.

Actual low gear off-road conditions fuck up AWD drive trains which is why off-roaders never use them.

>>2791317
anyone who thinks you can go innawoods from using a train in canada is a fucking moron or a troll who's never set foot here

>>2791315
those are crossovers.

>>2791306
xjs are very small by today's standards. they are literally the size of a new corolla cross, a bit smalller than a rav4, but with even less headroom. I'm 5'11" and my head touches the barely sagging headliner. the rear seat does fold flat, but being in a tahoe or even better a suburban will feel like a tour bus in comparison, and the much heavier weight means you don't get blown all over the road at 70 like in a xj. I love my xj, but it ain't no comfort cruiser despite being fully optioned with leather.

>>2791337
I do understand, I drive a real 4WD and use it, but Subaru's AWD is still significantly more capable than other AWD systems or 2WD and will get you out of or through things that other non-4WD vehicles won't. It makes getting through a powder dump or a poorly maintained fire road a lot easier and that's all a lot of people need.

There's also the issue of some states or areas within them legally requiring either 4WD or AWD during the winter if you want to avoid chains, and regardless of what you or I think about whether it's really necessary you kind of have to have it if you live in one of those areas because running chains nonstop all winter isn't practical.

>>2791365
>AWD is usually better on roads
This is only true because of weight distribution. Trucks are absolute trash for inclement weather and I can't comprehend why morons love them so much.

I've tested this and an on the fly shifting 4wd 4runner is still better on a snowy road than an AWD cadallac or subaru. The speed differential from the front to the rear tires on a 4WD has much better control than an AWD.

An AWD shines on wet roads and, again, is still better than any pickup truck in any condition.

Off road AWD does not and will not ever outperform 4WD unless it's a Rally race on a dirt road. There is a reason people don't use AWD for rock crawling or mudding: because it's inferior for those tasks.

Rock crawling will absolutely destroy an AWD drive train.

About to trade in my 2WD sedan for a Subaru Crosstrek Wilderness. Any reason why I shouldn't? I don't care that subarus are gay.

>>2790971
mechanic here and this guy is a stupid fucking retard nigger for even mentioning that piece of shit and the worthless fucking engines that go inside of them

>>2791301
most people on here have never turned a wrench in their lives. You are correct. One day at the shop I changed out power steering pumps 4 fucking times on a 2000s Tahoe because the remans and even NEW were fucking defective.

>>2791497
>Trucks are absolute trash for inclement weather and I can't comprehend why morons love them so much.
Because they're versatile, and because there aren't a lot of great alternatives - the Wrangler and Bronco are extremely compromised vehicles that suck at everything except rock crawling and the 4Runner is overpriced and not very good on the road either, plus personally I'm built wrong for Toyota ergonomics and driving a 4Runner or Tacoma is torture.

>>2791506
>4Runners are awful to drive
Right right, that's why they are in such high demand and the manual version is almost impossible to find.
Seriously: post tits.
Most people that own trucks use them to commute and don't need anything more than a car with a class 1 or class.2 hitch kit.

There are tons alternatives to trucks for homeowners but they're to stupid and prideful to drive a minivan with a tow kit which is infinitely more useful for most town and city dwellers.

However this thread is about out vehicles not utility and trucks are shit for our. Even AWD Subaru homos are better than muh truk

>>2791504
>A part on a vehicle over 20 years old finally went bad
Factory defects are endemic to all modern OEMs anon. If anything the fact that it lasted 20 + years is a positive for the quality of the original product.

I know several mechanics that drive gen 2 or gen 3 4Runners.

>>2790963
I like my Subaru. Perfectly capable for everything I need.

I have no interest in off-roading for the sake of off-roading, just off-roading for the sake of getting to hikes/climbs. Also unlike large 4wd vehicles, a Subaru still gets great gas mileage (34mpg highway) for long road trips.

Luv my 97 grand cherokee, simple as

While it is a pos, I paid $1200 for it and it's lasted 4 years so can't beat that kind of value, even if the pussies in this thread would have a heart attack at it's broken AC, radio, leaking everything, and it driving like it's trying to kill you constantly.

Dreading the day it dies because either have to roll the dice on another "cheap" (2-3x what I paid for mine) jeep, or pay the toyota tax.

>>2791519
They're in high demand because they're awesome off road vehicles and for years have been the only BoF 4x4 SUV you can buy that isn't a removable top meme. I just don't fit in them worth a damn because I've got long legs and short arms and Toyota loves putting the pedals close and wheel far.

I've towed more with my truck than any minivan is rated for, had tons of stuff in the bed that I wouldn't want to have inside a van with passengers, and been in numerous situations where the truck's ground clearance and 4WD were godsends. Saying they're not good for /out/ is stupid too, nothing else has the combo of capability and cargo capacity and there's lots of /out/ shit where the separate bed is really nice, especially if your /out/ crosses over with /k/ like mine does - in fact one of the main reasons I bought a truck was because I didn't want to spend 2 hours each way to BLM land sealed in a box with my lead-covered steel targets.

>>2791535
i think like 25 of the posts in this thread are from a single dude who has a really stilted perception of cars

>>2791562
Agreed. I think he thinks it is his blog and is really into interiors.

I really want to import a Lada Niva to Canada. These things are kinda tight ngl

>>2791570
a russian shitbox with low grade components and notoriously unreliable moving parts. you're either a credulous retard or a putin cocksucker

>>2791571
Geez. Sorry that me wanting a cheap and fun car to mull about in a forest in is either politically charged or due to a mental disorder. I'll do better next time.

>>2791573
get literally anything else that doesn't result in more dead Ukrainians you stupid fuck. my cousins live there. the lada brand is not unique, special, or exceptional in any way. they are shit inferior cars made by a shit inferior industrial base for a shit inferior population of shit inferior cucked npcs who will continue to send their men to a meat grinder for the ego of a single aging bald fuck. even the chinese make better ICE cars.

>>2791563
jeeps and toyotas are crude and shitty, you can get a lot better from other brands if you aren't obsessive about hype

>>2791562
>It's all one dude
>Toyotas totally don't have a massive following
Whatever you need to believe newfags
>>2791535
I get it, you're fat. Trucks are shit for offroading compared to SUV style because of weight distribution. I give zero shits how much you personally tow my point remains the bulk of trucks on the road don't even have tow packages l, they have ball on bumper which is basically useless (and they don't use it).

Pretending trucks are food in snow or rain compared to an AWD or SUV is a lie.

Stop pretending I've never driven trucks in the rain or snow--it absolutely sucks even compared to a compact car.

>>2791584
>Everyone calling me an idiot is the same person
I think you should stick with reddlt. You clearly enjoy circle jerking devoid of critical thinking

>>2791589
I've explained why. The Jeep has two solid axles and that makes the ride rough and bouncy and the steering wander on the highway. This has been noted in many car magazines for years. I'm not the first person to say this.
Toyotas usually lose comparison tests because the ride is rougher, the platform is older, and the suspension is cruder.
You want a modern suv/truck with safety features and a solid frame and a comfortable ride not some death trap made in 2002 that doesn't even have adaptive cruise control. Most of these answers are tilted way more in the "hardcore offroader" direction and OP specifically said he doesn't do that, its JUST dirt forest roads.

>>2791530
just repair it. lol. you can fix everything you listed for like another grand if you know how to wrench yourself. people have recently been starting to strip everything they can off junkyard jeeps to scalp parts, but there are still plenty left.
>>2791590
solid front axles wander on the highway if your alignment is off or a component like a bushing is worn out the same could be said about ifs when you need an alignment. the only difference in a properly maintained solid front axle vs ifs on the highway is that naturally, the other side will react with the opposite to a degree if it hits a bump, thus not being ifs. it's really not that bad. most people who claim that jeeps have shitty ride have been in one that has worn parts, is out of alignment badly, has a failing power steering pump and/or steering box is missing a bolt, and aggressive offroad tires expecting a smooth highway ride. lol a well-maintained jeep is perfectly fine on the highway, althought really light ones like the xj do get blown around by wind and feel more like an economy car in terms of road feel, mostly because of weight and rear leaf springs. there are much better options for highway crusing like I meantioned the other day, and naturally they are bigger and heavier. I would much rather drive a suburban cross-country than just about anything else in the price bracket, even if it means I can't play on a hardcore recreational 4x4 trail because it's too long. in a suburban you don't have to rent a hotel or have your luggage packed to the ceiling right behind your head, and you can cruise at 70mph at low rpm.
pickup for utility
jeep for serious offroading
landyacht for traveling
something like a 4runner would fall in between the jeep and landyacht. it's perfectly fine for road comfort, but not a comfy ride by any means, and it's capable offroad but limited by ifs when it comes to articulation and front axle durability. most people won't do anything hard enough for that to matter though

oh and always remember when used car shopping... a well-maintained example of a less desirable vehicle is almost always better than a porrly-maintained example of a very desirable vehicle. this is something most people have to learn the hard way. so when used car shopping, have more than one option on your list, and find something with a good service history first and foremost. that shit pays for itself in the long run.

>>2791595
it's not true though. I've driven countless ifs vehicles with the alignment that is only slightly out of spec and you have to defensively drive to keep it in a lane what do you think happens when you hit a pothole in ifs or hit one of those transitions in paving on the highway? you can throw ifs out of alignment much more easily than a solid axle even. pick your poison. just because you rode in a 30 year old jeep that was fallign apart doesn't mean that's how they were engineered to drive. lol. you're probably just talking out of your ass anyways though based on shit you heard online by another word of mouth bullshitter..

>>2791597
again there's tons of other issues with the jeep the ride is rough and crude and handling is poor the steering is vague its just a poorly designed vehicle OTHER Than the off road chops
you are sacrificing everything else for the image, brand, and off road ability, and you don't need to do that to tool around dirt roads

>>2791598
have you ever driven a toyota from say 2009 onwards? most of them have extremely vague featherlight steering. hop in a corolla and get back to me. most cars have had steering like that for over a decade, not even just toyota.

>>2791599
I did not say toyota was better! They are both overhyped brands. The problem with Toyota is the best product they have now for off road stuff is the new Tacoma, and SUVs are better than pickups but the 4Runner is still in the ancient last gen, and in any event, EVERY single automotive magazine has found the chevrolet colorado to be better, not to mention less expensive.

>>2790963
>What is a good /out/ car?
Suzuki SJ / Samurai / Sierra / Santana (all more or less the same car). There's not really any competitors to it among cars, though some UTVs are comparable or even better.

What you want is:
>manual transmission
Especially for frozen roads, but also for thin mud on solid surfaces. If your car starts slipping, pressing the clutch is generally enough to make the steering work again, while on an automatic, you need to either dose the brakes perfectly or accept that you have no control over where you're going.
>gasoline engine
Both because of cold weather, and because they're lighter.
>As light as possible.
1000kg is good, 750 is better, 500 is the best you can get without compromising on other things (but also damn expensive). A light car is far less likely to get stuck, since it won't dig in as quickly in the first place. Generally, that means 1.5l or less.
>either partial 4WD or diff locks
partial 4WD (rear axle always on, front axle only when needed) is best, since you can turn off the front axle on slippery ground so your steering wheels won't break traction as easily and can drift. If you've got full-time 4WD, you need a center locker at minimum (most cars have them, but some SUVs don't), and preferably at least one axle locker.
>Armor. You'll want a solid read bumper (for when you have to turn around - there's always obstacles where you least expect them) and skid plates. Front bumpers aren't as important if you're sticking to trails, but still a good idea.
>leaf sprung
The benefit here is that if you hit an obstacle at speed, the spring wil just bounce back. With coil springs, the lever arms can bend. Also, leaf springs dampen quite well on their own, so a broken dampener isn't as bad. Both will work for regular use, leaf springs are just better.

>early 2000s jeeps
Too heavy, engines too powerful, but otherwise useable cars. Just make sure you get a manual.

>>2791601
themain problem with toyota is that the used ones are incredibly overpriced. a mexican will try to sell you his beat to shit piece for 3x what it's worth. plus the new ones are built in mexico, not that they already weren't built in america(esentially mexico) already.

>>2791590
I hate you so much you anoying faggot

>>2791578
mald. you haven't convinced me otherwise at all

>>2791602
Op here again. Thank you anon. This is the kind of post I needed, I'm a total noob when it comes to cars even if I have some mechanical abilities, which I guess is a weird combo.

I guess the reason I'm fixated on Jeeps is that there seems to be a pretty high volume of them going on sale and being bought on marketplace in my region. I've only seen the models you mention a few times and they sell for a pretty high price like more around 9000 and even then they are older models like early 90s. Whereas seemingly well maintained jeeps 20 year old jeeps are going for 6k (note this is in CAD so everything is more expensive)

something massively discouraging is that I took a deep dive on the jeep XL and tried to crunch the maintenance and finances and what I found is that although the maintenance seems simple enough.. almost every guide or video mentions completely different things to check exhaustively, like if you watch 3 videos on what you must check for, you end up with 30 things you gotta replace. I guess with all things you take it with a grain of salt

but I saw on reddit for example in a maintenance and costs thread that redditors spent on average 10k fixing the jeep XL after buying it. Apparently even doing the maintenace themselves But they are redditors. THat's similar to me buying a 40 year old sailboat for 5k. I spent about 10k de-bubbafying it from the previous boomers who owned it

The other fear is me buying an old car, never quite trusting it because of the fear of it breaking down in the middle of bumfuck nowhere

I guess the name of the game is that you try and find a pavement princess with low KMs that doesn't have cheap mods. And the previous owner wasn't a moron who clapped it out.

So no I'm wondering if I should up my budget to something like 12k and try and get a 2010s model jeep or something

>>2791602
also while i have your attention what do you think about lifts. I don't think I plan on going places where lifts are necessary and I think they look kinda dumb. but like 60 percent of the stuff for sale is lifted

>>2791656
>60 percent of the stuff for sale is lifted
buying an already lifted suv would be a dream for me, provided the lift is modest, you don't want something with 3+ inches that's just for looks and will fuck you up on the highway if it gets windy or there's curves
but just a little lift is very nice for roads that are just fucking rockpiles or have water crossings

> I don't think I plan on going places where lifts are necessary
in my experience, its not like you KNOW whats gonna happen, a lot of places have very little info on them online, and that's usually because the roads to get to them are terrible, with big ruts, potholes, erosion, rocks in the road, etc and it just would be nice not to have to worry about that like you do in a standard suv
subaru crosstrek wilderness actually I think give you like a 1.7 in lift or something over the non wilderness trim
im not sure if the other subarus have extra lift for their wilderness packages, i mean the crosstrek itself is ALREADY an impreza wagon with a lift kit

it would be nice to be able to find more normal suvs (not trucks) with lift kits but I doubt thats the ones that have it

>>2791659
all the subaru wilderness trims have an extra lift. forester, outback, crosstrek.

>>2791660
hmm ok so i just looked up outback and its kinda minor .7 inches difference
I coulda sworn the crosstrek is somehow slightly more than that

anyways, most of the driving i do innawoods its windy and narrow roads with rough surfaces
so I want a COMFY ride and a sophisticated suspension so a truck is not that, a toyota is not that (the reviews of the new tundra all commented on how shitty the ride quality is compared to american trucks)
I assume the new tacoma is less rough than the old one, but probably rougher than chevy colorado
and i really want the suv form
you definitely do not want a 90s jeep or suzuki around winding narrow roads that go up and down a lot

>>2791654
by jeep XL you mean XJ right? regardless... don't get too into all the youtube videos of people talking about this vehicle and that vehicle. 75% of those are people literally regurgitating shit they heard from a youtube video or forum post. you would be surprised how much bullshit is said with no actual real-world experience. everyone is a fucking expert on the internet because nobody will check for credentials. one this you said was right, see >>2791596
a well-maintained vehicle should be first priority. and as far as the old vs newer jeeps go, one of the main benefits of the older ones with the 4.0 motor is that they are much more simple. that goes for the tj wrangler also, but they demand a premium. the XJ was always for those who either wanted a smaller jeep, or couldn't afford a TJ on the used market. I don't really see a point in upping your budget and buying a newer jeep with a v6, not that they are bad, but the price to performance ratio of the jeep XJ is excellent even though they have gone up in price over the last few years. the money saved is more than enough to keep up maintenance. in my town, there are literally dozens of them I pass by daily in my own. they are still all over the road for a reason, and it's even more crazy considering how many were lost to cash 4 clunkers, dermo derby racing, and other types of shit. it was just one of those cars that ended up being great, a huge part thanks to the powertrain. the 4.0 and aw4 are notoriously hard to kill. people daily them with bad oil leaks, sputtering due to needing maintenance, etc... and they still manage to limp to wherever they have to make it to. there are plenty of good used 4x4s, but an xj in pretty good shape that you get for say $5-7k is gonna be hard to beat unless someone screws you over with a poorly maintained one. also, the resale value is only going up. I have people ask me if I'll sell my every single day, and it's not even in that good of shape, mayube a 7/10.

>>2791663
I think he means JK vs JL generation/platform (wrangler)
JK is the old one, JL is the new one
JK bones date back to the 1980s or something, its really a dinosaur I wouldn't bother with that.

>>2791663
>>2791668
yeah I meant XJ theres a good one thats pretty much factory being sold for 6k near me and its pretty tempting but I haven't got a parking spot figured out (yeah I'm an urbanite)

I think the XJ would be perfect in terms of passable highway comfort (inb4 rough and crude) and offroad ability.. like yeah I'm not planning on driving over boulders and I think anything lighter than that, like the subarus, would be a little too freaky as I have to do some highway driving to get decently out there from the city.

but I'm majorly put off by the potential of spending anything more than 2k in maintenance after purchase. I guess I'll just have to get really informed on what to look for. Cause yeah I bought a clapped out boat and spending the first two years of owning it agonizing over fixing it instead of using it was NOT fun. I want something I can use right away (while also refreshing it and maintaining it)

>>2791668
that's not what he means, and jk does not go that far back. cj, YJ, TJ, JK, JL. wranglers might look similar buy nothing about the JK is even remotely like a YJ, let alone a CJ

>>2791659
and op again yeah I get what you mean I might need a lift but my garage has pretty low clearance so idk. I'll consider it but its not a must for me. ill ask another guy who offroads around here what he thinks.

>>2791672
well, the thing to keep in mind about the maintenance part is that it could happen with literally any car, not just the xj. and I'd argue that the xj will be cheaper to fix anyways. being 20+ years old, it's more than likely just going to be small suspension bits here and there that are tired than anything else. if it runs good and isn't pissing oil from 3 different spots, rust is your only concern, but then again rust is a concern for all vehicles. also, buying a stock one is much better than a lifted one that has the potential of being someone else's hackjob full of cheap junk parts. plus it will ride way better. a stock tire/lift xj is very capable with good tires, and if you get a lockers as your first mods even better.

>>2791675
nice. and thats true, good advice. What do you mean by "a lockers" for a mod? anyway ill check back here later. I've had car fever just looking things up for hours and hours and I need a break lol

>>2791679
lockers allow the wheel on both sides of an axle to spin at the same time. giving you traction when one wheel can't get it. from the factory, most vehicles aside from something like top-trim level rubicon jeeps don't have these. everyone usually adds big tires and a lift to their trucks before lockers, which is comical. that's also why you see these big lifted trucks get stuck and a little jeep rolls right past them. it's not mandatory, but it really helps in scenarios where for example you might be on uneven surfaces and one wheel lifts up in the air or almost does, so it just spins and can't get traction. with a locker, the other wheel on the opposite side that's on the ground will get power to it also.

>>2791683
>most vehicles aside from something like top-trim level rubicon jeeps don't have these
you can get it on chevy colorado off-road trim and toyota tacoma
its also definitely a thing on full size pickups more commonly
you can also get rear locker differential kits I know for some suvs

>>2791684
yes but it's relatively new in terms of being offered in factory vehicles. he's asking about used cars. they finally started offering lockers for offroad and some towing trims after people bitched about it for 30+ years.

>>2791686
hmm im pretty sure the new generation of colorado has had it since the beginning ! 2017 i forget the lettering i think its like zr1 or something like that package but it comes with a rear locker, and im very sure tacoma has had it since ever
and again, if you have the money, you can get one installed

>>2791687
like i said, the highest trim level. 90% of the vehicles sold are not the highest trim levels. most of the wranglers ever built didn't have them, same with toyotas and everything else

>>2791689
No, there's plenty of zr2's sold cuz its a pickup and people want the locking rear, and its not even THAT expensive new, like 45k I think
anyways I was just looking and there's definitely a bunch of used zr2 colorado's out there for 25k-35k
not cheap, but they exist

>>2791684
You can get it on pretty much any Ford truck regardless of trim with the FX4 package too. That's actually a big part of why I bought a Ranger over other options, it was the only one where I didn't have to pay $5-10k on a trim level full of luxury and tech shit I don't care about just to get the off road things I did want.

>>2791707
>>2791687
>>2791696
>Muh truck
Boomers are so stupid it's unreal. They'll buy slop forever because they think it makes them look manly not because it's actually any good.

>>2790963
>I see a lot of early 2000s jeeps being sold by owner for very little so Idk, i'll start with a jeep?
What is very little?

Your pic is a TJ, 1997 to 2006. Any I see worth getting in the US are 10k+ usually. If it's "very little":
>there's something mechanically wrong
Can you or do you want to learn to wrench? At least in the US there's a shit ton of knowledge on the TJ and all it's parts plus a ridiculous amount of aftermarket support for the drivetrain that I don't think any other off-road vehicle it's age can compare to.

>it's rusted to shit
Avoid. You'll end up replacing so much shit it's not worth it.

>it's a I4 2.5L
Off-road they still got it where it counts, they suck ass on the highway (65mph, worse uphill)

>it's 180k+ mi
Depends. If it's well taken care of it's got tons of life in it. If it wasn't it could be at death's door. One guy supposedly had a TJ with over 640k mi IIRC and hadn't rebuilt or replaced any part of the drivetrain except the tranny thrice but that's par for the course on a high torque vehicle

>it's a salvage title
Depends. Check your state laws and call your auto insurance company and tell them if you find one you're interested in.

The TJ is the perfect Jeep to me. Modern enough to be nice but still retains the old soul. My love for them is because
>I like taking top and doors off
>nimble like a mountain goat

They're just fun, even if the modern "culture" is cringey as fuck.

>>2790963
My mercedes s500 4matic gets me to more trails than you've seen in your life, son.
You don't need any of the shit you said, a Honda civic and a set of snow chains does it all.

>>2791570
>>2791570
We had one when I was a kid (Hungary in the 80's, then the Eastern Bloc). I hated it. It was totally unreliable, always had some problem, spent more time at the mechanics than with us, the oil had to be topped up practically constantly, etc. It may look good in a photo, but honestly, you'd just be fucked with it even in a country with proper service coverage (which is not Canada, I suppose). Just buy a Jimny or a 2 door Land Rover instead.

>>2791778
Chaining up sucks better to have good tires and 4wd. Save the chains for when you absolutely need them.

>>2791654
>I've only seen the models you mention a few times and they sell for a pretty high price
Yeah, kinda expected that. The US kinda forced Suzuki to stop importing them after a few years bcs of jeep's lobby. Just wanted to give you an idea of what a peak offroad car looks like. But they're pretty much history now, with most people driving UTVs / side-by-sides instead (both the same thing, just different names) for real offroading, and trucks or jeeps for trail work.

>maintenance and costs
Depends on how hard you ride. if you're careful, you can get by for years without any real damage. In my case, over 10 years, I've only had to replace one part (corner of the rear bumper) and repaint a few scratches. I do drive pretty slowly in hard terrain, though.

>buying an old car, never quite trusting it
That's not only with old cars, though. New cars can fail just the same. For example, my father's golf suddenly lost ignition on the highway. At least if you get a shitty old car and fix it, you know where the typical problems are, and can fix them on the roadside if necessary. If you're way out in the sticks, you'll want some tools and spares with you anyways. Some oil, water, spare fuel and spark plugs in any case, and a spare brake cable and distributor if your car is that old.

>>2791656
>lifts
You probably won't need them. I'm getting by just fine with stock height, at least, on both my SJ and my landcruiser.
Disclaimer, though: I've never driven a lifted car. Maybe there's some massive improvement I'm missing out on.

>I'm wondering if I should up my budget to something like 12k and try and get a 2010s model jeep or something
If you're really after a car only for going /out/, I'd say forget about getting a car at all, and buy a side-by-side / UTV. They're a bit less comfy (bcs. smaller tires) but can go everywhere a jeep can't.

>>2792067
This is all good info. I think you missed one of the key reasons older cars are better: They're easier for the end user to repair. New cars are full of electronics and commonly have a very crowded engine compartment that often requires significant disassembly to access even simple parts.

Old cars, in the context of repairs, have two major advantages: much easier to swap parts out and because the car is so old you're almost guaranteed to find a forum or video detailing how to do the repair.

>>2791570
You can get them for ~20k
>https://www.alphacars.com/used-lada-in-new-england
The problem is the import tax and exhaust conversion drives the price through the roof.

US emission laws are much "stricter" because people are retarded and the oil cartels are scamming you (Use more fuel with the emissions kit but the emission per gallon is less or use less fuel but the emission per gallon is more without the kit).

Essentially the entire exhaust system has to be replaced to bring it into the US. Ignore the Ukrane/Ussr retards. The reason the USSR even has auto manufacturing is because the USA gave them all the factories/tech/skills during WW2

>>2791656
>what do you think about lifts
NTA but...
Depends on the car.

Suzuki? Go for it.
>solid axle with leaf springs & shackles
>simple, robust, cheap, easy to fix, easy to make taller, difficult to fuck up
>downside is they aren't comfy

TJ like in OP pic? Depends.
>solid axle with coil springs & control arms
>complex, robust, not as cheap, easy to fix, easy to make taller, easy to fuck up
>downside is... easy to fuck up, they can be comfy too!

Toyota Tacoma, 4Runner, most offroad vehicles since at least 2000+
>independent front suspension/IFS (maybe rear, maybe uses leaf + axle rear)
>most complex, robust enough, expensive, difficult to fix but easy to make taller, nigh impossible to fuck up

Also, on a short-wheelbase vehicle like a Suzuki or a 2dr Jeep you need to consider driveshaft angles. Some people lift and never correct for this because they don't offroad it. You don't wanna get offroad and find out you are in danger of breaking down.

BUT single best thing you can buy is a $50 tire deflator
>more tread on ground = more traction
Between this and disconnecting my swaybar I've been more capable than another Jeep that did neither and just kicks on 4wd

Another unspoken hero: basic ass bottle jack with extensions and a solid flat surface. Hi-Lift jacks are but hood ornaments; literally useless and dangerous

You can go with a stock offroad vehicle, we like lifts because they look and feel cool but dollar for dollar are probably the worst investment. Not a bad one tho, not at all, harder trails will necessitate them.

I'd say these are priorities:
>recovery gear (straps, shackles, winch, etc. all synthetic, no metal)
>good AT or MT tires (smaller wheels, bigger tires = more deflation = more tread = more traction)
>sway bar disconnect (if solid axle)
>rear lockers
>lift
>front lockers

And yeah, you may want to buy an inflator too, Viair is good. But just go slow on the road and get to a gas station.

>>2792086
Lifts are bad for the transmission and cause more issues than they solve. It's easy to look up the specifics as to why so I'll keep this post short but most people really don't need them. Same with oversized tires...it's more for looks than actual performance gains.

I'm a big Suzuki fan but the Samurais are over priced because, like 4runners, they're very popular especially with modders.

>>2792107
>Lifts are bad for the transmission
Its more wear on your drivelines more than anything(cv axles, driveshafts, u joints, wheel bearings). Trans should not be affected much by a lift kit as its bolted to a crossmember tied to the frame.

>>2792107
If a lift itself is bad for a transmission then you have some fucked drive-line angles you should have taken into account when you lifted it in the first place.

Otherwise you meant that things like bigger tires are harder on them because they put more of a strain on the tranny. But so does any extra weight so... whatever.

I don't give a shit anyway. I know lifts are not the best values dollar for dollar (I said as much already), but quite frankly, I like them anyway. It's just fun to run a tall lift with bigger tires.

Life is too short to split hairs over min-maxing your weight when it comes to offroad vehicle longevity. If you like it: do it.

>>2792139
When you increase the height of the suspension you do two things: You increase the intersection angle of the drive axel into the rear transfer and you also are increasing the distance the drive axel has to span--it's the hypotenuse of the triangle. Both have a net negative impact on the linkage because you're moving outside of design tolerances for all the moving parts.

The higher the lift the more severe the resulting issues will manifest.

So yes, a lift is by default "bad for the transmission" but the question is "how much" and that varies based on a lot of factors such as how good was the original transmission in the first place and how high you're lifting everything.

As for the tires--you basically agreed with me.

Yes, you do care or you wouldn't have replied. The whole reason I recommended looking this up is there are a lot of variables and they're all specific to the platform and mods you want to do.. but in general lifting is always bad for the transmission it's just a matter of "how much".

If you like it -- do it -- just don't pretend it's a game changer.

>>2792133
my bad--I lumped the entire drive train together when I was talking about the drive shaft and differentials.

Thanks for the correction.

>>2792143
>negative impact on the linkage because you're moving outside of design tolerances
Duh shit, that's why I said you need to take things into account, like I dunno, how to fuck with your angles and maybe get a longer driveshaft if you need it.

You know people have been lifting vehicles for a long time, and some even know how to do it right.

The problem with a lifted vehicle, like I said in a previous post, is that depending on the type of suspension and axle setup and depending on how it was installed will depend on whether or not you are gonna run into issues or not.

But those are all things that an experienced person might know, but for beginners it's too much to take into account. Like with any used car you buy you should get the opinion of a mechanic that knows their shit. If you're buying a lifted offroad car then take it to a shop that specializes in lifting offroad vehicles.

>you do care
I care that someone makes the most of life, that means being aware of what your trade-off is and still being able to say fuck-it anyway

>If you like it -- do it -- just don't pretend it's a game changer.
I said the same shit. In a technical offroad capacity for most vehicles and most people it won't matter. I know a lot of trails I do would be fine without my lift. But I like it. I don't care if I just sacrificed a bunch of money and tens of thousands of miles on the life of my car. Those are trade-offs that are worth it to me cause I like it.

I'll be the odd man out here but I lived in this for about 3 months out west. The Africa episode of Top Gear is what gave me the idea to do it. Removed all the seats except the driver and passenger seats. Was able to fit my stuff and my sleeping bag. It was incredibly comfy in the cold. The only bitch was trying to take some of the rougher public access roads. Thankfully never got stuck.

>>2792168
>>2792145
>>2792165
>>2792143
>>2792139
>>2792133
op here

definitely looking for vehicles that are the least modded as possible. especially lifts. I've come to the decision that I just don't like them. Nor do I trust most lifters to not bubba out their cars. I'm sure there are those who don't (i.e. it won't shit out the tranny or whatever) but I just won't know what to look for. It's hard enough knowing what to look on in a stock car without factoring in DiY stuff

>>2792201
This guy does it all from a 10 year old Kia. Goes and builds an iglu in -20 weather and sleeps there for 2 nights, and then drives home in the same little car.

Just buy a decent runner as stock, adjust it to your basic requirements, and then work from there.

>>2792201
Yeah if you're buying new-to-you then as stock as possible is the best way to go. I've done that every time and enjoyed the peace of mind.

>>2792217
It's funny you get so caught up in the modding shit and what not you don't stop to consider that stock cars are pretty capable as it is. Supposedly the "Trail Rated" badge they put even on basic Sport Jeeps is to say they've tested the design as-is on the Rubicon Trail

In any case, watching Top Gear/Grand Tour should inspire many people. I remember going to Mexico, not expecting we were gonna be going to some rancho on a mountain. I didn't have my car, we had a 2006 or so Ford Focus (FWD, obvs) and had to go through shallow creeks, up rocky and muddy hills, etc.

We had zero issues, sometimes you needed a running start a couple times but that was it. But the person I rode with was like
>why would we have issues? I've been here and places like it tons of times in my car

>>2792224
stock lower trim wranglers are very capable, mainly due to approach angle, tire size, fenderwell size, and solid front axle. the lockers on the rubicon are what really makes the majority of the difference, that and slightly more aggressive tires. it takes a lot more uneven surface to cause a tire to come off the ground with a solid front axle, that's the main benefit. disconnect swaybars and it's even more pronounced. that's what always made jeep XJs so great. they were relatively small but had a solid front axle. something that was long gone from most cars by that era. they are also not as easy to roll as something as small as a suzuki samurai, and have way more power and wheel size clearance. samurais are pretty sweet, but they are rare these days and more suited for something extremely tight like an atv/side by side trail. very niche and never designed for the american market. hell, even the old ford explorers were decent with mods, but cash for clunkers killed most of them. it's a shame really. that used to be an extremely common and affordable first 4x4 for new drivers. millions upon millions of perfectly reliable ones were crushed for no good reason. anyone who wants an XJ that is stock should act relatively soon though, because they are going the way of plenty of other platforms. sooner rather than later they won't be worth what people are asking, not to working class people who have to make rational purchases anyways. the last car I sold was because of a similar market change. it was no longer viable too wrench on because sourcing used oem parts for cheap was a thing of the past and retards started asking $10k for 0 year old cars. no thanks, don't like them that much. I also like TJs but they aren't reasonably priced anymore. if you buy something like an XJ it's best to grab spare doors, windows, and other shit like that while they're still relatively cheap. that way you're set when people start asking $750 for an old door

>>2792238
>they are also not as easy to roll as something as small as a suzuki samurai
Isn't it kinda funny how, despite lawsuits being brought against Suzuki in numerous countries by organizations affiliated with Jeep, not a single one found the Samurai more likely to roll over than any other offroad car? Just one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Motor_Corp._v._Consumers_Union_of_the_U.S.,_Inc.
Also, as a personal anecdote: I drive a Samurai as a main car. Final model, with the ultralight-aeroplane version of the G13BB, goes up above 150km/h (not sure how far - at 150, it's already deafeningly loud) and still on stock suspension. On the hill roads, I can and have kept up with sports cars (there's a yearly time trial on the road I drive, where they let normal traffic through after each contestant, and I always try to keep up). Never rolled my car, or even lifted a single wheel into the air. Neither when following those racers, nor when offroading.

Also, a smaller car is inherently more capable. Less width = les problems driving in between obstacles. A Wrangler is still small enough to not be terrible, but trying to take a cherokee or a ford explorer through the woods is bound to fail.

>>2792242
xj cherokee iand tj wrangler aren't that different in size. but anyways, I'm not talking about rolling a samurai on the road. naturally, something with a shorter wheelbase and narrower track width is going to be easier to roll at extreme angles. it's mostly a concern when on steep grades, especially if at any kind of sideways angle. or rock crawling. like you usually see happen to side by sides. it happens to plenty of bigger trucks too. trying to do a slalom at speed with swaybars disconnected in a samurai or xj on the road would be a recipe for disaster though.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for. But this is not a troll, don't knock it til you try it

To the people saying full sized trucks are too big to go innawoods, look at what the forest service drives. A longer wheelbase might hurt you on a game trail or in moab but literally any forest service road must, by definition, be constructed in such a way that a pretty stock full sized truck can traverse it. And forest service roads make up 99.99999% of innawoods vehicle access.
>>2790963
I like 80s and 90s ford F series trucks, especially the mechanical diesels. They are simple, dirt cheap - you can pick up a an 80s or 90s F-150 4x4 with the 300i6 and manual 4/5speed for under $2000 in most US states and Canada. Parts are everywhere because they made millions of them, just about every farmer has one somewhere on the back 40, so dirt cheap too. The 300i6 is one of the most unkillable engines ever made so I'd recommend that, or the 6.9/7.3IDI. The IDI mechanical diesels are super neat, very reliable, simple, good fuel economy (I average 18-22 on pump diesel) and also will run on just about any oily fluid. I've run veggie oil, used motor oil, used hydraulic fluid, used ATF, I even know a guy who ran crude oil straight from the ground, sent through a water separator and filter, and thinned it out with about 10% stale gasoline from a two stroke snowmobile. With a hanes manual and some maintenance you can make these trucks last a really long time, I have had several run over 400k-500k miles. They are also pretty good off road. Decent suspension and clearance, old school locked transfer case, lots came with limited slip rears too. I drive forest service roads and innawoods off road traila daily as part of my job, all over the country, and really only struggle when there is 3+ft of snow on the road.

>>2792442
No one said they were too big
They are shit for offroading.
The one in your picture has a shit-ton of weight in the back--most don't. The light ass end is the main problem and you have to add shit to the back to make it usable in inclement weather.

The government drives on logging roads and the forest service buys on contract... not to mention Park Rangers drive SUVs.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, boomer, but trucks dogshit off road and got popular because boomers have shitty taste in literally everything.

>>2792451
>you have to add shit to add shit to the back to make it usable and inclement weather
So you are throwing a fit over $40 worth of tube sand?
>Park Rangers drive SUVs
GMT900 suburbans are the only SUV ive seen park rangers drive and thats literally just a chevy 1/2 ton with a covered bed. Up here in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming 99% of rangers ive seen drive ford rangers and F-150s.
>boomer boomer boomer
I'm 25 but its good to know how butthurt you are over a bunch of old people living their lives.

>>2792243
>trying to do a slalom at speed with swaybars disconnected in a samurai or xj on the road would be a recipe for disaster though.
That's exactly what I'm saying: it's not, at least not with the Samurai, and a halfway decent driver. I'm far from an expert, and if I can keep up with sports cars on a curvy hill road at speeds around 70-80 kmh, I'd expect most people should be able too.
>naturally, something with a shorter wheelbase and narrower track width is going to be easier to roll at extreme angles
Only if weight distribution is identical, and the center of mass is at the same height.
I'm not that familiar with the different jeeps, but the Samurai has all the weight rather low, since the body weighs almost nothing while the frame is pretty solid. Sideways, it can do more than 50° easily and more than 60° if you're careful, and front to back, you're more likely to stall even in 4L than to roll.
Assuming you know how to use the clutch, of course. When retards just hit the gas and let their cars bounce all over the place, all bets are off.

>>2792442
>forest service roads make up 99.99999% of innawoods vehicle access
Maybe if you're driving a big truck? Most of the trails I drive are on private land, and while you could still get through with a pickup in most places, there are some passages where my Samurai barely fits through, and a pickup would have to do a few km of detour.

>>2792442
Soo, is that your rig with the Idaho plates? I'm flicking through Idaho and Eastern WA craigslist, seeing some cool old f100s and f150s but they're all gas. I might have to do some towing and land work in the relatively near future and I never really considered one of these ford diesels, but if what you say is true then it seems like the right tree to bark up. And hints?

>>2792477
Lol was just gonna say sandbags. I've taken my 2wd manual ranger into some pretty funny places. And you can scoop the sand out and throw it down on ice.

Also I know it's arguably just
>thing, japan
but I'm surprised nobody bringin these up. Usually very overpriced for what they are but I see them pop up with fixable problems for a few K sometimes. So light, so tiny, locking diff, many have winches. I'd have gotten one ages ago but it sounds like they're pretty crap on highway

>>2792516
forgot pic

>>2790963
Old lada niva.

>>2792442
>>2792477
>>2792516
>I'm flicking through Idaho and Eastern WA craigslist, seeing some cool old f100s and f150s
Don't you have to be very careful with rust issues up there?

>>2792520
Not as bad as you'd think IME. Lots of snow and definitely slushier lately than when I was growing up, sadly. But it seems like salt is not common like back east, and it's borderline high desert so stuff always gets a chance to dry out.

I was in New England for a little while and the car market is night and day. You can take an 80's toyota pickup with 250k, in the panhandle it would be
>$2k, head gasket a while back, not perfect but she always starts.
In Vermont that would be
>$15k. Classic survivor. Don't miss this chance. I KNOW WHAT I HAVE

>>2792524
>I was in New England for a little while and the car market is night and day. You can take an 80's toyota pickup with 250k, in the panhandle it would be
>>$2k, head gasket a while back, not perfect but she always starts.
Really??
I'm the >>2791053 anon and I was thinking about buying the car in Texas (I'm a Europoor tourist so I'll get to pick the state I want for looking up cars and registering). My reasoning was Texas = less ground for rust issues (as long as the cars didn't spend its life along the coast) and more people = bigger used car market = better prices.
I looked up a few cars in Idaho/Montana and got spooked by some rusty frames, a lot of salting going on there it seems. Maybe I should reconsider. Montana is as good or better than Texas to register a car in for tourists like me.

>>2792501
>samurai barely fits through
Those exist, but like I said I drive to the tops of mountains daily to service telecommunications towers and I havent found a road that I couldn't traverse with some creativity with a full sized truck. Also gotta remember this is /out/ not /org/. In theory you are driving to the trailhead or innawoods to go camping or hiking. When you can't go on rubber you go on foot. But you can go really far on rubber with a high clearance 4x4 even with a longer wheelbase.
>>2792516
>is that your rig with the idaho plates
Yeah, ive got like 30 of the fuckers. Most of them are diesels but I have a few gassers. If you are buying a diesel get one with a manual transmission. The autos were fine, the IDI didnt have enough power to break the e4od unlike the powerstroke, and the C6 is pretty unkillable mechanically, but the C6 uses an unobtanium vacuum modulator to set shift points and the e4od has a bunch of electrical stuff so i stick with the simpler manuals. Until 88 it was an unkillable but low geared 4 speed, either a T18 or NP435. After 88 its a ZF5 S41 which is a very strong transmission with a granny first and decent overdrive ratio in 5th. Probably the best balance of low speed crawling and highway drivability. The 4 speeds also have a granny first which idles at walking speed but 4th is direct drive and in an IDI that tops you out at 65ish mph depending on your rear end gearing. They are pretty bullet proof. They don't like to start without glow plugs or a sniff of ether under 35 degrees. Keep in mind the newest IDI is 30 years old at this point so prepare to have to replace rubber brake hoses and rubber fuel lines if the previous owner has not, those just crack and swell with age.

>>2792544
Cont.
>>2792518
Ive considered these kei trucks, but honestly, at least in the US they are >thing, japan taxed to the point where they aren't really worth it. I've not seen one sell for less than $5k in a while, and parts are expensive and you'll probably have to wait on shipping from overseas. For $5k you can get a really clean ranger or F-150 that has more parts availability and more torque, and can travel on highways relatively safely. Gotta remember these things were built in japan to skirt regulations and literally have motorcycle engines in them. Low top speed and even with a low range if you load her up you're going to run out of steam pretty quick.
>>2792520
Not so much in Idaho. I live in the panhandle and we dont salt much if at all up here, the SE salts but even with snow its pretty dry here unlike the rust belt. Most of my frames are clean even with some body rot.

>>2792545
Last cont. of me shitting up the thread with my autism
>>2792516
>Any hints
Besides normal pre-inspection that youd do for any older vehicle, like checking out ujoints, ball joints, bushings. there isnt a lot extra to look out for. They will continue to run even when pretty fucked up, but to run well the most important thing is to have the fuel system in good shape. I'd plan on replacing all the return lines and return caps and o-rings no matter what. Its an easy job and a rebuild kit is $40 off rock auto. Its normal for them to smoke white for a little right out the gate when cold, but if she continues to smoke white under load or at hot idle youve got some kind of fuel delivery problem. Most likely air intrusion from a sacked out rubber line somewhere, but potentially a timing issue, leaky injectors, or a sacked out injection pump. Easiest way to test the injection pump is get the engine nice and hot and shut it off. Then start it again. A hot injection pump that is sacked out will crank a long time or won't fire at all when hot. Getting that rebuilt is one of the more expensive parts of the engine, ~$400.
>>>nb4 cavitation
Hard to go anywhere and read about 7.3IDIs without hearing about cavitation. I've owned and driven dozens of these and wrenched on way more and never seen it myself. I think its way less common than people think. That being said it doesn't help to throw new coolant in there with some SCA/fleet charge which is actually cheaper than most coolant anyways.
>finding them
they either sell cheap or the seller "knows what they got." I usually buy them dirt cheap non-running/with issues. Most of them ive spent under a grand on. Usually crank/no start is just a combination of old batteries and sitting and needing the fuel system primed. Ive scored a lot of them from farmers fields for a few hundred and just primed and cranked on them until they sputtered to life. You can find running/driving examples for under $4k relatively easy though.

>>2792477
>Muh truk
You boomers are so retarded it's unreal
At no point did you justify a truck nor counter anything I said.
Trucks are shit for offroading which is why most people don't use them for that purpose.

>>2792545
>Muh truk boomer says more stupid shit
They weren't built on Japan to skirt regulations they were built in Japan to sell in the Asian market. Contrary to boomers who have to drive massive trucks to compensate Asians build vehicles for their functionality. Cheap vehicles that fit down small village roads for people who don't need range or towing are what those were designed for.

>>2792557
>trucks are shit for offroading
Good thing we aren't talking about "offroading." OPs requirements are
>cheap
>reliable
>able to access and traverse logging roads in winter and summer
All of which an 80s-90s full sized truck excel at, immensely, as i have desceibed. If you want to go to moab get a SxS or ATV or dirt bike. I promise you'll have even more fun and go more places than you ever would in an XJ or whatever your autismo is getting all rustled over. Plus, you can tow it to location with your 80s-90s full sized truck.
>they weren't built in japan to skirt regulations.
They literally were. What do you think "kei car/truck" means? Its a set of rules and regulations set by the japanese government. From Wikipedia:
>The kei category was created by the Japanese government in 1949, to stimulate both car ownership and growth of Japan's car industry. The regulations were revised multiple times until 1998, but since October 1998, the law consistently specifies a maximum vehicle length, width and height under 3.4 m (11.2 ft), 1.48 m (4.9 ft) and 2.0 m (6.6 ft), respectively, and engine displacement under 660 cc (40.3 cu in).
I have no idea why you are so assblasted by me responding to OP with a suggestion that meets and exceeds their criteria.

>>2792562
Not OP but I appreciate your contribution anon.

>>2792557
Boomer truck cucks absolutely ruined the truck market. It's impossible to reason with them they're the most narcissistic me generation in recorded history. The reason you can't buy small trucks anymore is because truckCucks are obsessed with image over functionality.

All the boomers near me have the big trucks they drive to work and tow expensive boats with and all the offroaders drive 4runners, jeeps, Samurais or some other 90s SUV.

>>2792564
Trucks are awful in winter conditions.
People in Alaskia buy trucks for towing but their daily drivers are usually AWD suburus or Some flavor of toyota SUV.

Hondas and Toyotas have dominated the reliability charts for the past several decades.

>>2792572
How about a lifted Prius with AT/winter tires and chains in the trunk?

>>2792572
>>2792562
According to the NHTSA trucks are 3 times more likely to be in a rollover accident than any other vehicle type and are 23% more likely to be involved in a crash than other types of passenger vehicles.
>>2792577
I have a front wheel drive 2011 ford focus 5-speed and a gen 2 4runner and even the focus was better than my 2018 Silverado which is why I got the 4runner and ditched the truck. I lucked out and found some old dude that had a 92 4runner with 110k miles and near mint condition... hands down better than the truck was in any condition. I got the truck to tow the boat and never liked it.

In highschool I drove a 5 speed chevy cavalier on all the logging roads and didn't have any real issues and never got stuck. The only logging roads you'll ever have problems with are intentionally rutted out by mudders for funzies. The few park roads that are still dirt are easily accessible by the Fiesta--which is super fun on them and I rally the shit out of it.

>>2792572
>Hondas and Toyotas have dominated the reliability charts
Right, like the twin turbo v6 in the tundra and Sequoia, which are all blowing themselves up, or the 4cyl turbo in the Tacoma and new 4runner that is also blowing up and the new 9 speed transmission that is also blowing up. Or maybe you mean the older stuff, like the FJ cruiser and 3rd gen 4runner and Tacoma that had axle issues and torque converter failure and a design flaw causes all the manuals to need new TOBs and transmission housings every 150k miles. Or maybe you mean the 3.4v6 that was a relatively reliable engine just the frames melted off because toyota decided to use untreated low chrome-nickel steel to save a buck, or maybe you meant the even older 3.0v6 4runner/pickups that were constantly warping heads and blowing headgaskets, or maybe you meant the 22RE pickup/4runner, the ones where the timing chain guides would fail and the timing chain would eat a hole in the side of the block. Maybe, maybe you are european/SEA and meant the diesel Hilux/surf. Like the 2LTs that will crack the head between the combustion chamber and the water jacket the second they see more than 9600 degree EGTs, or the 1HZ where the valve seats are made of cheese. Surely this toyota reliability thing is real and not a meme perpetuated by weebs who dont know shit about jack.

>>2792583
>breaking news, object with high center of gravity more likely to tip over than object with low center of gravity
You get ground clearance or high speed/crash stability, you can only choose one. Also spoiler alert, check your title. Your 92 4runner is classified by the NHTSA as a "light truck" and is included in those statistics.

>>2792588
I re-skimmed this report and the fact that people are still parroting this obviously false and easily disproven talking point from Not Just Bikes and other is hilarious. The category the Ford F-150 is in is "Light Truck," and it shares this category with a bunch of other vehicles, everything from the 4runner to the PT CRUISER are considered light trucks. The rollover statistic you cited is actually relating to a different category altogether, "Large Trucks" which is largely commercial vehicles, from 18 wheelers to F-750 bucket trucks, as well as motor homes and busses. AND, 79% of that rollover statistic is the subcategory "Heavy Trucks," which would be like double axle 18 wheelers.

>>2792568
>all the offroaders drive 4runners, jeeps, Samurais or some other 90s SUV.
we wheel cheap shit because we know it's going to break.

also the only thing that really matters for wheeling is the tires and drivetrain.
and we replace the entire drivetrain anyways. So as long as the vehicle has a fairly short wheelbase and an actual metal frame, we'll wheel it. Probably with most of the body chopped off.

>>2792583
Normal pickup trucks are fine and get the job done, even 2wd (just know how to drive and swing your rear end in loose footing). You can throw a normal shell on the back and turn the bed into a living area if you want.

>>2790963
My 04 grand cherokee overland was pretty excellent. Wish I didn't have to sell it to move.
>Bought for 7k cad in 2011
>Handles well on rock crawling trails, will easily handle any sort of logging road
>Drives bretty well on the highway for solid front axle
>Didn't break down once in over 10 years of owning and offroading it
>Comes stock with limited slip diffs
>Easy and cheap to upgrade and repair
>Comfiest seats in any vehicle I've ever been in
>The ladies love the two tone leather interior
>Great stereo system
>Good amount of space to take your friends on /out/ings
>V8 sounds very nice
Easily the most comfy /out/ vehicle you can get

>>2792544
>gotta remember this is /out/ not /org/. In theory you are driving to the trailhead or innawoods to go camping or hiking
Now I wonder just how new you are. There's a bunch of farmers on here due to all the self-sufficiency threads. In my case, I'm driving into the woods when I'm moving my beehives amnd cutting firewood. That usually means driving a few km on forest trails, then the last few hundred m completely offroad.
>>2792562
>we aren't talking about "offroading."
>able to access and traverse logging roads in winter and summer
Dunno how it is where OP lives, but here at least, "logging roads" are basically offroad stretches whith the trees removed. You can get through with a truck, but you're likely to dig in unless you have lockers, while a light vehicle can get through easily. In summer, that is - in winter, there's so much snow that nothing will get you through unless you're driving what we call an iceland mod here - wide tires, full lockers, no lifts and the lightest cars possible (due to how iceland restricts trails depending on pressure per cm2 of tire area,this style originated there).

>>2792238
>it takes a lot more uneven surface to cause a tire to come off the ground with a solid front axle, that's the main benefit. disconnect swaybars and it's even more pronounced.
This is why when it comes to very technical offroading Wranglers can be preferred, you simply can't do as much with IFS. But 99% of offroading that people actually do is not that extreme and IFS is perfectly fine.

>swaybar disco
I used to have a TJ (regret selling that, I need to get it back) but one of the things on my list was the Anti-Rock Swaybar; a "best of both worlds" where it's always connected allowing good on-road behavior while allowing a lot of droop off-road. A little lift, bigger tires, new fender flares and at least a rear locker and the TJ gets all the more capable.

As much as I don't like the JKs though, they are ridiculously capable in stock configuration too. The Rubi comes not just electric lockers but electronic sway bar disconnect too. On top of that all JKs actually come with this really weird "smart" braking system that automatically tries to lock brakes on the wheel with the lowest resistance when you go off-road, effectively making it a pseudo locker system.

>>2792548
Thanks panhandle bro, screencapped some of your words. Mother of god, you have a lot of trucks. Maybe some day by chance I'll drive past that herd of fords and lol.

If I had my way it would be a Scout. I know nothing about their performance, just think they're badass. Anything above junkyard tier seems pretty unobtainable though. I've known some guys with Scout II's but they just don't hit the same

>>2790963
i actually did a ton of driving on forest service roads in a 2010 crv lol. even in the snow it handles pretty well.

>>2792731
I currently do the same thing with the back seats removed and a double memory foam bed in the back.

I have CAA platinum just for the eventuality that I get stuck somewhere. I drive the shit out of it.

It's obviously not an off road overlander but I've put on 20k this year driving around washington, out past yakima, all the way inside and around olympic, up mount rainier twice, just anywhere I wanted to go I could go. Brings me a lot of pleasure parking beside a 4runner who took the same road I did.

While this isn't OPs question or request, most people "overlanding" are just taking manicured roads in overbuilt vehicles as a sort of expensive LARP. An AWD CRV can handle everything but actual overlanding just fine.

>>2793477
LOL props bro. im north of you in the fraser valley so very similar terrain. it was always funny to see peoples reaction to driving a soccer moms car

>>2790963
if all your gonna need to do is go over kind of hard dirt roads i would get and old ford explore of crv. jeeps hate living and will give take any opportunity to break down so if you not off roading its not worth it.

>>2793477
yeah, op here

the search for an sub 5k car has been overwhelming. I'm mostly finding clapped out stuff and my dad basically warned me that I'll be praying i don't have a tonne of issues with the car I get.

He suggested I get some 2014ish AWD subaru with even modest ground clearance that should be good for my needs (even a sedan), and I think he's got a point.. except then I get into 12k and financing territory.

Whenever I find a stock jeep XJ/Wrangler that isn't clapped out or modded redneck junk, that's like 20 years old.. it's around 8-10k and at that point I really have to ask if that makes sense because its still a 20 or 25 year old car and anything can go to shit

the search has been very discouraging and it may be worth it to go car free for a another year and save up more cash

>>2793770
subarus aren't the meme they're made out to be, both in terms of performance or reliability. like most vehicles, they are fine until you have to replace a headgasket or somting once it's got 200k+ miles on it, the key to getting a nice car for a cheap price is taht you have to choose something that is very abundant. still lots of them on the road. it's a simple matter of supply and demand. if there is a surplus of something, it won't command as high of a pricetag. subarus, jeeps, toyotas, hondas, etc all have a cult like following even though there were tons of them made so they get bought quickly and the value is infalted.

works for me

>>2793770
>it may be worth it to go car free for a another year and save up more cash
The samurai anon here. If I read that right, and you don't have a car yet, absolutely save up for a good one and disregard my earlier advice. I'd assumed that you already had a "proper" car and wanted one primarily for outdoors.

While driving an offroad car every day is possible (I'm doing it whenever I can't ride my bike, since I don't own any regular cars yet), it's a pain on wider roads. The wind blows you around - for ex. I remember passing a truck on the highway once and suddenly being a whole metre further left the moment I got past it enough for the wind to catch my car.

If you want a single car that can do it all "well enough", I second that other anons recommendation of a ford explorer or something similar. Those car's won't get you through narrow logging roads or mud pits without massive mods, but they're good enough for dirt roads and won't kill you on the highway.

Or do what I did and get a bike for every day use and limit the car for when you have to haul a lot of stuff.

>>2793785
Yep, that's right. I don't have a car. I do have a custom e-bike that basically substitutes as a daily driver, but it can't get me out of the city.

It seems having a car that is reliable and meets my 5k requirement but ALSO I won't spend 100 hours maintaining and refitting it isn't realistic

as lame as it is I might just settle for car rentals if I really want to go /out/. theres plenty of AWD SUVs nearby I can rent and maybe the financials just don't make sense to buy right now. But the info in the thread has been invaluable regardless

KNEEL.

KNEEL BEFORE YOUR GOD EMPEROR

>>2793798
it's not that unrealistic. you just have to be patient, but you also can't get excited and buy something hastily. just keep saving while you look. if you're not using it for a daily driver on a long work commute, you don't really put that many miles or wear and tear on it anyways. I still think the jeep XJ is the best bet for the money if you're talking about something that is very capable, maybe even more capability than you even need. something like a honda crv is also decent if you don't need the serious 4wd, but they will usually have way more miles on them compared to the equivalent priced jeep XJ because honda. XJs are pretty simple mechanically and the reputation for reliability is well deserved and documented. anyone who claims otherwise is simply outing themselves as not knowing what they're talking about to be quite honest. 97-99 are especially desirable. like I said before, say you don't want it anymore... you will get your money back via resale. they're only going up steadily.

>>2793805
>>2793806
good but big ohc v8 under the hood doesn't leave you a ton of room for wrenching. that's the appeal with gm pushrod design. tiny and not much going on under teh hood in terms of clutter. panther platform + gm pushrod = perfection

>>2791571
Are you literally incapable of not thinking about Putin's cock and/or Russian sperm for a single moment, tranny?

>>2793780
What a blast. I'd pay gold for 9-5

>>2793938
she was, Aero, with the turbo, sportcombi.
i dont have a drivers license now, so i just sold it

>>2793798
Definitely price it out, op. Renting sucks and it "feels" so damn expensive. But if you're going to just be going out on jaunts from time to time it could save you thousands, which could roll forward to when you have a better reason to own a car, or get a good buy opportunity. Take it from me, renting hurts, but once you own a car, you'll be HAPPY to spend that $200 on a repair, and you won't even THINK about the gas or insurance. Make a couple moves like that and you'll end up like bubba who just can't understand why he could never get ahead like his old man

Japan Triton

>>2793294
This body style is actually very sought after and you'll be lucky to find one in good condition for a good price. They usually sell for around the same price as a 4runner from the same era.

>>2793809
>>2790963
https://www.govplanet.com/Automobile

If you're in the USA the old cop cars (or interceptors) are hidden gems worth looking in to. I don't think you can re-sell them once you buy one but they're usually well maintained and super cheap. Pretty sure they don't deliver so you have to go pick them up.

>>2794271
>If you're in the USA the old cop cars (or interceptors) are hidden gems worth looking in to. I don't think you can re-sell them once you buy one but they're usually well maintained and super cheap. Pretty sure they don't deliver so you have to go pick them up.
no they aren't hidden gems. the police sell offs and second hand can be completely battered to good condition.. and contain mods to the engine bay generally but it can vary.. there are plenty of the civvy ones around you should look at first before the police ones but both can be good or bad
it's just a great sedan with no computer crap to seize the car from you cause it isn't gay, and you're not driving some honda shitbox you can't see out of, but you will have to work on it, the saving grace is they are very easy to work on
for example I just replaced a bad headlight relay (your headlights shutoff) in my 2003 with an equivalent one off amazon, but you have to really crawl into the driver side and fiddle with the box wrenching your body to get it out, and it's the one with the PCB burn in that has to be replaced
another fix I have to do is open the dash to get the climate control unit out and replace 4 007 size o rings inside the little electronics box again to get the dash blowers working, which are a real luxury
before those I had a mechanic replace the freon or w/e bottle which you can get the replacement for fairly cheap and it's more durable than the original, and I also put a new battery in before that.. but the car and all those fixes cost me 7-8k BAHAHA fucking losers driving 50k range rovers they'll ditch in three years

>>2794548
>Completely battered to good condition
yes, hidden gems.
You can also buy old HMMWVs.
I never said they were all good--just some of them. Some of these are impounded cars as well that there is nothing wrong with the cops just needed to offload them.

You can get these for like 2k and even after dumping a k into them for repairs you're still at half the cost of whatever 8k thinger you're espousing.

>>2790963
I know it's not a popular take, but pre-cvt subarus meet every single one of those requirements except for 4WD. Particularly the H6 ones.

Triton!!!

Handles as a car, climbs as a wrangler.
Crawling on rocks is not his best.

>>2794722
Terrorists use them too

>>2791105
most of the people on this board are, what's new?

>>2793798
Figure out what vehicle you like that will suit your needs. In the intervening time until you find the vehicle you want watch videos of people working on the specific car you want.
It is not the same as working on it yourself but it is getting so expensive to have a shop work on your vehicle it is almost a must to be able to wrench your own vehicle.

>>2791008
The Holden Colorado truck bed is 1800mm at best (about 5foot9) i can tell by the fist pic its a space cab so 1800, as apposed to 1600 for the duel cab.

These tubs are incredibly uncomfortable to sleep in, even if your say 5'8, your head touches the headboard and your feet touch the tailgate, its uncomfortable as fuck.You can see in the pic, Op's head and neck are all crooked just so his body to fits in.

You can always try and sleep diagonal in the tub but again its pretty tight, you have a wheel arch on one side at chest level and the other at your legs. And there's no way another person is in there with you while sleeping diagonal.

Another option is to sleep with the tailgate down (my preferred option) but then basically your feet are out there exposed to any rain or dew or snow, I have done this a few times and just tucked them in and closed the tailgate if it rains but then see paragraph 2 and 3 and its sucked. I can see from Ops pics he has a tarp set up, but why not just set up a Tarp on the ground and sleep in it?

Sorry to rain on your Parade OP of the Holden Colarado (absolutely nothing to do with Chevy BTW), but dual cabs are shit to sleep in. Nice LED's though, Also wheres all your luggage while you sleep in the back?

If you can reach it by car it's not /out/

>>2794740
>Projection: the post
Go back to leddlt, you have a some sort of disorder and your comments are as pointless as you are.
>>2795065
Ask me how I know you're a euro who doesn't have a drivers license.

>>2795058
I am 5/11 and sleep like an baby in the back of the Colorado anon. Yes, I sleep diagonal but I have a custom mattress that makes it easy.

As far a luggage goes, I pack fairly light but everything in the bed for the journey is either setup and deployed in camp or stored in the cab (occupying storage space plus seats because I don't need them).

It's been quite easy and comfortable and frankly wonderful sleeping in the back. Especially when it pours out at night in the mountains and I'm dry and comfy in the back while the ground around me floods. Trust me, I'm at 180cm+ I'm not to tall to get a good night's sleep.

>>2795098
pic is the air mattress btw

>>2795058
>1800mm at best (about 5foot9)
5'11", plus a fraction more

>>2795111
THANK YOU. other anon doesn't understand how inches work.

>>2795098
What did you use to take this pic?

>>2795195
Pentax KP with the Pentax 10-17mm fisheye lens, and of course a tripod

>>2793780
Unfathomably based.
Got a nicely tuned B207 9-3 SC myself.
'93 D24TIC Volvo 940 estate too.
Because Swede estates are best estates.

>>2791115
Fellow XJ bro

>>2795220
I always wanted one of these with a lift kit.

>>2796338

The Amy uses a stripped down Colorado.

>>2790967
I honestly don't know if this is a truckload of bait or just repeatedly awful observations and advice.
>>2791009
So the second part, got it.

>>2796341
400 grand for this thing, a stripped down Colorado. Meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering what the hell I pay federal taxes for.

>>2793294
these things rust so fucking bad
t. guy with parents that had two of these things in the midwest

>>2790963
I got a lightly used tradie Tacoma for dirt cheap, but it's only 2WD. How much can I do by just slapping some all terrain tires on it?

>>2798127
Good tires and even some kind of locker will make a huge difference. Better than most 4wd with road tires and no lockers. But the rear end of pickups are light so most people throw sandbags in for snow or any serious offroading

>>2790963
You don't really need 4WD if you're going on logging roads, unless it's fully abandoned

>>2798297
depends on the road surface. Loads of logging roads in the Pacific northwest are topped with clay, and it can be like driving on black ice at times when wet. I would strongly suggest 4x4 on most FSRs because of this.

>>2798297
Bro's never seen logging roads.

>>2791348
Very true. Trains stop in cities, not wilderness areas. Some go to National Parks but that’s pretty rare. Either way, taking public transit to go outdoors is a huge hassle and it eats up a giant chunk of time, especially if you’re only heading out for a day.

>>2798312
4wd with average road tires will still perform just as bad. wet clay is a bitch for aything but the most extreme tread mud tires that suck ass on road. you have to keep your momentum on surfaces like that. starting from a stop is the hard part. things like sand, mud and other wet loose surfaces require specialized tires to get proper performance. proper rigs even get stuck in that shit often. I'm not claiming that 2wd is super capable, but with good tires, some weight in the back, and especially a locking rear, you can do plenty of average dry trails

>>2791578
>get literally anything else that doesn't result in more dead Ukrainians
lol

Back in like 2010 I was riding dirt bikes back on this jeep road in Central PA. All of a sudden a white woman with 2 mud blood kids roll up the road in a newish Subaru Forester. I stop next to her thinking she's lost, lady rolls her window down maybe half an inch and yells "WE ARE OKAY". I tell her this road isn't for cars and she says "I GOT ALL TIME ALL WHEEL DRIVE" and proceeds to floor it up this jeep road and maybe 300 feet from the entrance to the road she is bottomed out in a rut with the entire passenger side smashed all in.

This was before the area has any kind of cell coverage, this lady was fucked. I wasn't gonna go tell anyone but one of the guys with me went down and called the law. Ride around till I see the sheriff come rolling up and after a while the women with her two goblin kids leave with the sheriff.

Dunno when they got that Subaru out but tons of plastic and oil on the ground where it was stuck. All these years later I still wonder about her and what the fuck she was thinking

>>2798605
>I GOT ALL TIME ALL WHEEL DRIVE
this is what she was thinking

>>2798606
Sure, and on some levels I think those Foresters are kinda cool. But how did this lady with her 2 mixed race kids end up on an unmarked Jeep road that was cut in back in the coal mine days?

This road doesn't even have a name and still doesn't show up on any online map service . How did this lady in 2010 end up there? What was her end goal? Why did she come out of whatever urban shit hole she lives in (gonna assume Pittsburgh), drive hours to middle of nowhere and decide this sketchy as fuck road was a good idea?

Not the best Toyota but it gets shit done.

>>2798619
These had a 2 speed transfer case, too bad they're not safe from toyota tax

>>2792217
he also digs himself out of the snow with a shovel every episode

>under $5000
nothing. expect to spend the value of the car within the first year

>>2798686
Maybe if you overpay for some unreliable shitheap, do your research and either outsource or perform your own mechanical inspection before purchase. Always be willing to walk away from a sale.

>>2798686
>>2798723
A 4x4 v8 90s pickup you could probably get for like $5k-ish. Worst case scenario you have to get a reman engine and that's what? Like 5k? Let's say it's really fucked and you have to get a new tranny and diff, that's what? 4k-ish?

The point is- for under $15k (worst case scenario) you will have a vehicle that you should theoretically be able to get like at least 10 years out of. And we can assume your going to have some other minor fixes here and there, radiators, ball joints, cats, etc. but generally it's going to cost way way way less than a payment on a new vehicle imho and that's assuming the new vehicle doesn't need some repairs in those ten years.

>>2798723
At that price point you would be forced to purchase a shit heap. Off-roading vehicles need to have high availability so you don’t get fucked in a serious situation. They also go through much more wear and have many more points of failure, all of which are expensive to replace or repair. An 4x4 drivetrain is not something you can just pick up and not worry about breaking

>>2798726
You literally just proved my point.
>wont be too expensive
>explain in detail that it would cost 3x the cost of the car
>still wont be reliable because rubber (hoses) and plastics from the 90s will become brittle
>guaranteed rust

>>2798728
Again that's the literal worst case scenario bozo.

The fact is for what most people make on a new car payment, I could replace the literal engine and trans every two years kek (which isn't going to happen im just trying to make a point).

I've never had any trouble with hoses tbqh. Radiators, ball joints, o2 sensors, speed sensors, etc is the only really likely stuff. Aside from the cats though that stuff is fairly cheap, and the beauty of it is that to get work and replacements on those vehicles costs about a fifth of what ot does on a newer car.

You could bring a new car in for a minor sensor repair and pay more than I would to put a new radiator in.

>>2798731
read OP again retard. We are not comparing this car to a new car. OP want a cheap and reliable 4x4 car for $5000. That simply is not going to happen. I don’t give a fuck if the sensors on your car keep shitting the bed, the fact of the matter is 4x4 drivetrains take much more wear and are harder to own while keeping spending low. It’s important to keep expectations realistic firstly before buying something that will only take more money from him.

>>2798733
Nta
Scooped a 1986 F-150 last year for sub-$2k. 4x4 with manual lockouts, 4.9l i6, manual transmission with granny 1st, and has a high rise cap.
It IS possible to find stuff.. just gotta be patient and willing to put a little work into something if necessary.

>>2798733
Look you can change a cam shaft sensor for like 30 bucks and an hour of your time though honestly. Now I realize alot of folks here main use for a vehicle is driving to a trail parking lot to go hiking... so sure you may as well get some sort of cheap used hatch back (that will still likely need repairs) or just a normal car kek. For some people though you really do need a 4x4 and a bed on the vehicle.

What I'm trying to explain to you is that you could get a relatively modern v8, 4x4 pickup truck for under 10k most likely by the time it is all said and done. When you sit back and look at the situation it is clearly the best buy imho. I mean if you get a 90s Ford with the Windsor that's a fantastic engine. If you get a chevy with the vortec350 or LS those are fantastic engines I'd put them up against any engine really.

This tiny minded thing of buying a vehicle like a can of coke with an upfront price tag is insane. Yes you may have a price limit up front but you ARE going to spend money on any vehicle on any given year. So the question is, what amount of utility are you getting for the money? And if you can get a 4x4 with a realiable (let's say) 350Vortec, a bed, a modern engine, cheap to work on, available parts in the 5-10k range plus maybe another $500 a year on average that is head and shoulders above any other scenario I can think of. I'm really struggling to think of a better buy for your money. That era- mid 90s to 2000ish- is the peak of performance BEFORE things got unwieldy and complicated.

>>2792168
>>2793780
>>2795220
Fellow wagon chads. All the utility of an SUV with none of the drawbacks.
I have an A4 allroad as my daily, which it's perfect at, as well as for chasing storms at western ski resorts. Folding the seats down and moving the passenger seat forward gives just enough room to lay a mattress pad down.
It's good for a few nights in a parking lot during a storm cycle but I wouldn't want to do that long term.

>>2798733
by your logic, anything other than a brand new or next-to-new vehicle isn't worth it. simply not the case. used cars are only gettning more expensive as time goes on, and desireable older ones are drying up steadily.

>>2798726
>>2798741
>>2798744
Trucks are dogshit for anything but hauling in the bed or towing. Sleeping in the bed is miserable compared to an SUV or AWD hatchback and without weight in the back the traction is awful even on paved roads when it's just raining.

Boomers love them because boomers have always had shit taste in everything not because they are good.

>>2798312
>>2798329
Logging roads are maintained by federal subsides because parasite logging companies wouldn't be profitable if they had to pay for them. The logging parasites pay almost nothing for land use. You can drive most logging roads with a front wheel drive sedan unless it's snowing or ultra cold. In ultra cold conditions a fwd sedan is still fine most of the time.
I've tested this extensively

>>2798769
no this is not what I am saying. My point is to have more than $5,000 otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure. I’ve only ever purchased used cars and there are always unexpected repairs no matter what. If OP said he had $10,000-$15,000 and was looking for a car around $5,000 that would be different. There is simply no car that meets his criteria for his price point unless he’s expecting to work on it regularly

>>2798774
Oh let's see things I can do with the bed... I can carry my chainsaws back there, gas cans, fishing poles, tools, shovels, I can throw dead animals back there, I can move limbs around, firewood, haul hay and dirt, fence posts, barbed wire rolls, I can clean stuff on the tail gate, I can throw my beer bottles back there, I can sit on the tail gate and smoke cigarettes, I can sweep it out with a broom, throw kayaks back there, move furniture, throw feed sacks back there, the list is honestly huge.

I mean people have to understand that outdoors activities aren't limited to hiking and camping honestly.

>>2798780
Also, if you work with equipment repairing it is just part of life. Some of it you can't do yourself some of it you can. A vehicle is no different to me... There is always going to be expense with vehicles- fluids, batteries, tires, etc. filters, eventually sensors, radiators, starters, it's just part of operating equipment. I've got a 100hp tractor right now with a fucked up injector pump. I'm not going to be able to fix it myself but hey that's just life it happens you can't avoid it. What you CAN avoid is buying a vehicle that is so complicated and over engineered that a headlight apparatus costs thousands of dollars or you have to pull the entire engine to change a starter motor kek. Or if one system fails the whole engine is toast, or one with an exhaust attached with a proprietary glue, or a tranny that runs on a goddam belt etc.

>>2798774
>Muh boomers
>Pickup seethe
Lol fag

>be me
>what I think I want is a Braptor because it looks cool as fuck imo
>what I actually need on paper is just a truck for considerably less money

Someone talk some sense into me

>>2798833
>Someone talk some sense into me
You got it
>raptor trim
>3.0 ecoboom v6
L M A O
>~$90,000
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hope this helps

>>2798774
Everyone clap for this retard. Pickup trucks are peak /out/.

>Boomers
>boomers
You mad bro?

>>2798833
the problem with the ford ranger is the platform is incredibly cheap and the interior is cheap, and it dates back nearly 15 years at this point to 2011. They really need a whole new modernized frame and they won't invest the money. As well, the noise in the Bronco (I assume that's what you mean) is awful and you can't get a non-convertible version of it.

The Chevrolet Colorado has a much nicer interior, a newer platform (2017~), and a better ride, at the expense of a tighter rear seat.

I do not understand why Ford and Chevrolet do not sell a non-convertible SUV-ized version of their compact/midsize pickup trucks i.e. like the Toyota 4Runner for off road use. It is buckets of money they are missing out on.

>>2793770
keep in mind that the early CVTs sometimes have transmission solenoids go bad. It's not technically difficult to fix, but it is time consuming. As a whole, a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated Subaru with a manual transmission should be simple & low effort to maintain

you probably want to consider whether the vehicle has X-Mode or not. Mechanically it's just brake torque vectoring, but the programming behind it works very well.
https://youtu.be/SsEFOH7KP-Q?si=WhK8E8zh1ROxB7G5&t=871

I don't understand why half of the posts here are fixated on full blown offroading when all you're looking for is "access crappy logging roads", which I assume is to get to trailheads or wilderness areas where you'll be out on foot. Any crossover with a decent AWD system and 7+ inches of ground clearance should be able to handle this without breaking a sweat.

>>2798949
How do you carry your gas cans in that thing? Where do you throw dead animals and stuff?

>>2798829
Pickups are garbage for offroading, cuck.
>>2798860
>Spends 100 k on a truck
Mad at what? Some retard proving my point about pissing away money on nonsense?

Peak out is backpacking, which you clearly never do. I love how it's spotless.

>>2798782
>Carry my chainsaws
Just like I thought--you're some retarded parasitic logger.
Stopped reading after that because you literally agreed with me and just enumerated my point: you didn't counter it.

As usual some retarded boomer spews nonsense justifying a boomer meme vehicle.

OP didn't say anything about hunting, so also, as usual with boomers, they live in their own little world.

>>2798971
OP never said anything about hunting, retard. If you drive something that doesn't get 8MPG you don't need to fill up twice a day either. Or, you know, roof racks and tail hitch racks are a thing.

>>2798977
It would help if OP filled us in on his intended activities

>>2798971
My brother in Christ, I've got 450+ miles of range in the thin mountain air

>>2791316
The manual Subarus have a viscous coupling for a center diff, which while not serviceable, is about as simple & cheap as a AWD/4WD system comes. The automatics use a multiplate wet clutch that shares its case with the transmission, so the oil can be serviced (along with the transmission). While tire rotation is more important in order to keep tire wear even, I don't understand how it makes the vehicle more expensive to maintain. I rotate every shoulder season based on tire wear.

>>2798975
>Spends 100 k
Look again you fucking sperg. Try $800k. I keep laughing at how mad you must be.
>imagine driving 500 miles off the beaten path
>imagine backpacking another 10-14 days from there
>imagine a comfy bed and shower waiting back where you parked
Enjoy your cuckwagon! Cheers!

>>2799024
how do you manage to spend 800k on that piece of shit?

>>2799026
Got it on sale

>>2790963
My 1999 7.3 powerstroke is pretty nice. 4x4, manual, 8ft bed etc. Good for adventures

>>2798976
Lol so in your tiny mind you think everyone with a chainsaw is a logger?

>>2798977
OP never said anything besides logging rough roads really and like carrying a tent. But the general utility of a truck bed is just apparent and obvious. Are you really incapable of seeing the benefit to the open bed in the back? I forget sometimes that people in the city and suburbs like to go drive out and do things outdoors I guess... and sure maybe it wouldn't make sense for a city or suburb person to have a truck but for alot of people that don't fall into those categories, it's very useful almost necessary to have a 4x4 truck for just general light duty stuff.

>>2799005
I don't carry a gas can primarily to have the spare fuel for my truck. I have a 500 gallon diesel tank at my house for the tractors but the gas I just use to mix for the small equipment, chainsaws, trimmers, and also for the lawn mowers, etc. AND as secondary thing it is just always good to keep a topped off 5 gallon can back there just in case- I mean you never know- but that isn't the primary reason. I've never run out of gas in my truck but do you really not see the advantage of being able to carry around gas cans in the bed of the truck? You have no equipment you regularly need gas for? And keep in mind the gas cans are just one of about a dozen examples I gave of things the bed is good for though.

>>2799080
>You have no equipment you regularly need gas for?
The vast majority of people live in cities, even more live in suburbia
The twice a year I need to get gas for my mower/chainsaw I just put the gas cans in a plastic storage container in the back of my grand cherokee and crack the windows, it's not a big deal

Love trucks but spend more time carrying stuff I don't want to get wet more than the other way around so a small SUV makes more sense for an only-vehicle

>>2793780
Can you still get parts for this?

>>2799128
Shit I use mine for stuff like every day. I keep a gas can back there 24/7. Honestly it would be a major problem if I didn't have a bed to put things in. Clearing stuff and hauling it to a pile to burn, hauling around leaves and pine straw. Like I said dead animals and stuff fishing poles. Buckets, fence posts. The tailgate is basically an outdoor table and work bench too. I can get it as dirty as I want and just spray it out or stand back there and sweep it.

Not only is it good for work light-duty work stuff but leisure too. A couple nights a week my neighbors come over, and I keep an old cast iron wash pot in the woods to burn fires in. We ride back into a clearing and have some drinks and stuff and a little fire. The trucks are your bench, it's how you bring your firewood wood out, it's a table and you throw your beer cans in there etc. it is so useful.

I realize alot of people have this sort of minimalist reddit meme thing hating on trucks but I think they OD'ed on memes honestly. When you separate out all the stereotype meme shit, a fucking rock on the ground could see the utility of it.

>>2790963
Good ol CJ5 or CJ7 with a jack, and a strong winch
Lots of Nylon and hemp rope on hand, and Axe, some chains and knowlege of basic leverage and pullies.
Dpending on where you are, also might be a really good idea to take along with you 2 really thick ass posts that you can drive into the ground with a post driver in case you can hook up to anything to winch yourself out.

>>2792224
Lol sounds like when I take my Civic out on the trails in the Olympics. People crying about rocks and bumps, my beater with 0 working suspension just bombs the trail bottoming out wherever

>>2799131
We get it boomer, you love your truck and LARPING as a real man.

Trucks are shit for out, only Boomers don't comprehend this.

where can i find a compact or midsize unibody suv that someone has modified with skidplates, off road tires, and, ideally but optionally, a locking rear differential? But really just the skidplates I need. It's weird how you cannot at all get a non-jeep suv with skid plates or lockers short of getting a truck or a full size suv (which is really just a pickup anyways)

the colorado looks too big and wide

Geo tracker

>>2799727
Is skidplates hard to find where you are?
Rally is quite popular where I live and skidplates in different materials are widely available.
If possible you could get a aftermarket one and install it yourself, to not have to narrow down your search so much.

>>2799772
i guess the issue is that getting pre-installed skidplates on a unibody suv that isn't full sized ias actuallly pretty hard
I do not want a jeep or anything super hardcore (bronco is convertible, too noisy) and I don't want a full sized truck or full sized suv, I need it to fit on tighter dirt roads and don't want to drive a behemoth anyways
so my options are ford ranger or colorado, which are huge and the pickup layout isn't ideal for securely storing your stuff and the ride is of course rough
of trying to find a unicorn like the honda pilot trailsport that comes with skid plates (2023+)
or buying a compact or midsize suv (honda cr-v, kia sportage/sorrento) and taking it to an aftermarket modifier and seeing if I could get all terrain tires, skid plates, and a locking rear diff installed, or if I would even need a lift kit on top of that
I don't want anything just for looks, and i want a comfortable ride on the highway, but I do tend to take some dirt roads that are in terrible shape and get muddy and icy in the winter so I want secure handling for low speed curvy hilly dirt roads

i guess Ideal would be finding someone has modified a (recent) suv, I want decent connectivity and adaptive cruise control and ideally projector led headlights, but it may be more reasonable to buy a stock suv and have it modified.

I do not want a jeep or a full sized pickup or something ancient-platformed, i want something newer and comfy, just that can handle shitty awful roads with mud and ice and rocks and ruts etc.

>>2799772
to add, I am not mechanically inclined, so I would be paying a mechanic to add them on.
Also should add, previously have been driving an suv WITHOUT skid plates, and doing that has fucked up the differential and the steering pump because those are unprotected

>>2799775
>>2799773
Then I wish you the best of luck. Sounds like you're either looking for a unicorn or have to cough up some cash for the right vehicle.
Popular cars for your purpose around where I live are Forester, VW trucks, Isuzu trucks, Mitsubishi trucks, AWD/4WD Volvos and more. Many of the drivers are hunters and frequently go on trips far out in the woods.
My CR-V from '98 still holds up great for /out/ purposes. Never gotten me stuck once how bad the road may have seemed.

>>2799777
no such thing as vw trucks, just rebadged fords aussieanon
too bad they don't sell the ford everest here or I might buy that

>>2799779
Have you checked for recommendations over at /ORG/ on /o/? They might have better suggestions for you. Good luck.

>>2799781
inb4 they ignore what i say and just tell me to get a jeep or a 2005 tacoma

>>2799722
>>2799723
Imho you're larping if you don't own at least two tractors over 50hp.

step 1
> find a stock XJ owned by a boomer
step 2
> make offer
it's that simple. anyone who claims that an xj isn't reliable has no idea what they're talking about. they are still driving around everywhere. just don't buy someone else's jerry rigged project. $5-7k will still get you one, but not for much longer. I'll sell mine in a few years once they are well into the double digits then use that as a downpayment on a new truck.

HAHAHAHAHA this motherfucker blows all your electronic shitsmobils out of the water, that old Fiat alongside the Hilux and Land Cruiser.
Of course, those are all older than two decades by now.
All cars have "eco" faggotry and useless electronics up the arse nowadays, they're also made to self destruct at a point.
Not sure where we're going from here.

>>2790963
Think you can get these in canada about 4000-5000usd used here.
And they are easy to build up for whatever you want to do. Not much computer shenanigans.
Can take a beating.
2*90ltr petrol tanks
1hz engine

>>2800800
*Diesel

>>2799722
Not the case at all. We have roads that become impassable with anything but a truck. You need clearance, mud tyres, a winch, 4 wheel drive and diff lock

>>2798753
>Audi
gay car