>>17449529
I've posted about this several times here. The New Left was focused on civil, not workers, rights but more than anything it was focused on ending the Vietnam War. This is where the traditional American working class does not acquit itself in history very well -- the trade union bureaucracy largely supported the war, and many workers viewed the students as anti-American. There were some cases where organized groups of union hard hats attacked anti-war rallies and beat up students:

https://youtu.be/SB5EfwyVZyI

Socialists face a dilemma when their social base -- the working class -- has different ideas than them. Socialism and the left in general is defined by a set of ideas. But do socialists support what they view as an imperialist war because "the workers" support it?

This was not a new problem in the history of the left. The problem is when the base of the left, the working class, turns out to be reactionary! Before World War I, there were several large socialist parties in Europe, and the largest party in Germany in 1914 was the SPD. The parliament had relatively limited power in the Reich, but did have the power to pass the budget, which the Kaiser needed for the war. So the SPD voted for war credits. But they did this to adapt to their social base in the trade union bureaucracy which was pro-war. There was also Plekhanov and the Menshivks in Russia who were similar to the pro-war SPD. This caused a lot of splits at the time. Lenin and the Bolsheviks opposed the war and emerged from that split, and the term they used for the pro-war socialists was "social chauvinists." It's like socialist in words but imperialist "in deeds."

>>17449529
He was probably already a fed or had connections beforehand

>>17449529
>make fun of SJW/Woke slop to troll leftist
>leftist respond by claiming the woke stuff is a distraction
>leftist point out that woke stuff was created by the CIA
>leftist say that class is the real issue, and the culture war stuff isnt important
>Leftist then die on the hill of defending every single woke point and obsess over transsexual bathroom rights, dragshows for toddlers, and obsessing over their hatred of white people
Why are they like this? I've noticed that even leftist who realize the its glowie stuff still fall in line defending it. Its like their are broken NPCs, I dont get this behavior at all.

It's the opposite. First they were leftist. Then they infiltrated the agencies. You are delusional.

>>17449651
I've been to drag shows but have never seen kids in the audience, let alone on stage

>>17449660
>I've never personally seen anyone get murdered, so this means murders never happen
There is no way you are actually this fucking retarded

>>17449667
Surely there's evidence of toddler drag shows then?

>>17449668
He's now going to slither away like the slimy snake fucker that he is now you've asked for actual evidence instead of just rage-vibes.

>>17449668
Why are you trolling? The left wing thing isnt even denying that it happens, but justifying it. Jon Stewart did an interview with a REpublican where he got red in the face while angrily saying banning child drag shows is a free speech violation.

>>17449579
>The New Left was focused on civil, not workers, rights but

by the '60s the major battles over workers rights had been won. nearly everyone in the First World had pretty good living standards, some form of social safety net, and the days of child coal miners were long in the rearview mirror.

>>17449682

None of those toddlers are in drag...

>>17449688
>dragshows for toddlers
>"UGH AKSHULLY ITS CALLED EPHEBOPHOBIA CHUD!"
Thanks for proving my point btw. Defending children drag shows is like THE most crucial and important issue for leftist now.

>>17449678
Is it not? Within the US it's probably illegal to ban it unless there's something sexually explicit in it.

>>17449699
>"its not happening" to "its happening, but its justified" in literally two post
lol

>>17449700
>arguing a strawman in the face of your troll post getting BTFO
They do have shows where they make the child dress up in drag though.

>>17449676
>>17449676
Kill yourself faggot
https://youtu.be/OmZOcJiko04?si=KB5H02sGmK3cZDWw

>>17449704
>They do have shows where they make the child dress up in drag though
And you can provide evidence of this, yes?

>>17449711
Post right above you faggot
https://youtu.be/ArOQF4kadHA?si=Bi-ou68mUtSRCc3n

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34

>>17449711
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zggP8j9Wp8I

Reminder, this is the hill that leftist are dying on.

>>17449529
OSS/CIA was leftist as fuck, they hated Euros and European imperialism

>>17449651
You can be 100% economically socialist but hate fags and trannies and the average left winger will want nothing to do with you.

You can be 100% capitalist but love fags and trannies and leftoids will at least have a dialogue with you.

Clearly leftoids love fags and trannies more than they hate capitalism.

>>17449975
I'm the second one

>>17449529
>Why did leftists
Stopped reading

>>17449529
>Herbert Marcuse literally came out of the OSS, lol.
One of the curious things about the 1940s is that the U.S. and the Soviet Union had become allies. Marcuse was working for the OSS on texts about Nazi ideology. Here's another fun fact, Sterling Hayden, the actor who played Gen. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove, was an OSS agent during World War II who was parachuted into Yugoslavia to link up with Tito's partisans, and became a communist while returning from the war, and joined the Communist Party. He left the party and saved his career in Hollywood, but it was a thing for a minute.

>>17449940
>OSS/CIA was leftist as fuck, they hated Euros and European imperialism
The OSS also met several times with Mao as part of the Dixie Missions, flying a team into a rough landing strip in Yan'an.

>>17449681
Those who gave workers rights were not leftists, but social democrats, who are centrists and considered fascists by the Soviets.

>Social fascism was a theory developed by the Communist International (Comintern) in the early 1930s which saw social democracy as a moderate variant of fascism

>The Comintern argued that capitalism had entered a Third Period in which proletarian revolution was imminent, but could be prevented by social democrats and other "fascist" forces

>At the 6th World Congress of the Comintern in 1928, the end of capitalist stability and the beginning of the "Third Period" was proclaimed. The end of capitalism, accompanied with a working class revolution, was expected and social democracy was identified as the main enemy of the communists. The Comintern's theory had roots in Grigory Zinoviev's argument that international social democracy is a wing of fascism. That view was accepted by Joseph Stalin, who described fascism and social democracy as "twin brothers", arguing that fascism depends on the active support of social democracy and that social democracy depends on the active support of fascism. After it was declared at the Sixth Congress, the theory of social fascism became accepted by many in the world communist movement

>The new direction was closely linked to the internal politics of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). After a faction fight inside that party following the death of Vladimir Lenin in 1924, the victorious group around Stalin shifted decisively to the left by advocating the end of the mixed economy New Economic Policy and declaring an intensification of the class struggle inside the Soviet Union. An atmosphere of revolutionary fervour was created and saw any enemy of the ruling group around Stalin denounced as "wreckers" and "traitors", an attitude that was translated on to the international stage, where both social democrats and communist dissidents were denounced as fascists

>>17449999
>Marcuse was working for the OSS on texts about Nazi ideology
I know a book about this.

https://www.pdfdrive.com/secret-reports-on-nazi-germany-the-frankfurt-school-contribution-to-the-war-effort-e175253702.html
>During the Second World War, three prominent members of the Frankfurt School--Franz Neumann, Herbert Marcuse, and Otto Kirchheimer--worked as intelligence analysts for the Office of Strategic Services, the wartime forerunner of the CIA. This book brings together their most important intelligence reports on Nazi Germany, most of them published here for the first time

>These reports provide a fresh perspective on Hitler's regime and the Second World War, and a fascinating window on Frankfurt School critical theory. They develop a detailed analysis of Nazism as a social and economic system and the role of anti-Semitism in Nazism, as well as a coherent plan for the reconstruction of postwar Germany as a democratic political system with a socialist economy. These reports played a significant role in the development of postwar Allied policy, including denazification and the preparation of the Nuremberg Trials. They also reveal how wartime intelligence analysis shaped the intellectual agendas of these three important German-Jewish scholars who fled Nazi persecution prior to the war

>Secret Reports on Nazi Germany features a foreword by Raymond Geuss as well as a comprehensive general introduction by Raffaele Laudani that puts these writings in historical and intellectual context

>>17450024
https://youtu.be/niiF8hCSrYQ

>>17449651
By far, overwhelmingly, the "culture war" about drag stuff and trans kids playing school sports is coming from the right, which last year spent $100 million of Elon Musk's money just on T.V. ads about it, which is at least several thousand dollars per trans person in the United States. It's basically a non-issue that most people don't even think about, but it's a "wedge issue," because a lot of people are uncomfortable with it if you shove it in their face. So the right-wing oligarchy throws money at it to shove it in their faces and work that wedge. But once the right gets back into power, they will largely drop these issues -- the people with money don't really care about it. All they -- the richest and most powerful people in the world -- really care about is power and money. Trust me, if there's another Occupy Wall Street, you're going to get bombarded with horseshit about "THE LEFT ONLY CARES ABOUT FAGS AND TRANNIES." They want you to just sit there and stew about this to prevent the emergence of any kind of anti-establishment movement which will threaten to take their money away

>>17449702
So is it happening?

>>17449717
That's very uncreative drag.

>>17450039
>if there's another Occupy Wall Street
The same OWS that fell apart due to leftist infighting over shit like white privilege

>>17449579
>There were some cases where
It was literally called the Hardhat Riots you retarded spammer

>>17450202
I'm trans btw.

>>17449529
The OSS and CIA aren't really that interchangeable. The OSS was a temporary organization founded in WWII to combat the Axis powers and was then promptly dissolved after the war, Leftists don't really consider it a "sin" to have assisted the United States during the war against Fascist powers.

>>17449651
Far Rightists are kinda the same with capitalism though. They'll decry greedy execs, offshoring, lobbying, the way money corrupts culture, etc. but they will NEVER actually get to the point of actually saying the system itself is inherently like this and these things are innate to it. They'll even make some cope about how Herr Krupp practices Aryan Capitalism in contrast to "Jewish Finance Capitalism" or some schizobabble like that

>>17449529
Read who pied the piper.
The whole thing was a scheme to castrate leftist politics. To some extent it can be said it backfired as later USSR started supporting the effects of it, but while the book I've mentioned only ends at 1963 iirc, it's not like NED has changed its tune either, for instance they give grants to historians who integrate LGBT history into national histories of European countries, so it can be said a scheme to neuter left ended up being controlled by those sorts of neutered leftists it produced

However these things were present on the left organically. They did espouse the kind of values people these "revisionist" leftists believed, they just had their focus laying on less overtly toxic things(a working class man is more likely to resonate with someone who tells him he's being oppressed and he should get more than with someone telling him he's an oppressor because he doesn't let his daughter be a slut). So what you've had was James Burnham picking up the most toxic waste he could find in the left and giving it money, grants and tenures hoping they'll drive their political causes into the ground.

>>17450231
Literally the same people organized under a different name. Fuck are you retarded

>>17449529
Yes, stupid and naive. Arrogant to boot. Right wingers are just leftists from the previoius generation

>>17449699
Freedom ends where being Jewish begins.
Get the fuck out of our country

>>17449529
I was a deal with the devil kind of thing.
They were far from stupid, leftism today is more popular than ever. Wokism >>> Marxism.

>>17449651
My fundamental question is, why have western/US leftists in particular allowed agents from literal western intelligence agencies to dictate the terms of their ideology? What are the advantages of doing this as opposed to developing ideology independently of the feds?

Did they really think that intel agency people like Marcuse had their best interests in mind? I mean, why did the 68'ers think that a sexual libertine like Daniel Cohn-Bendit who was linked directly to the West German BND ought to be 'thought leader' within their movement? How did this happen at a micro-structural level?

>>17449651
They still agree with the ideas, they just know those specific ideas were propagated to destroy them.
Its like if you were a chud and killing all jews was being encouraged as an idea, but stopping immigration was not. You may still want to kill all jews however you would know that such a thing in and of itself will not lend you victory on the more demographically important immigration issue. Especially if you know you’ll never truly get to kill all the jews. Just a few, as a treat.

>>17449529
It wasn't just naivety; leftists unwittingly partook in a covert psychological experiment where intel agents seeded radical ideas, manipulating a 'dialectic dialectic' of counter-culture and mainstream pushback. By embracing 'enlightened' provocateurs, they inadvertently amplified the very forces they sought to overthrow, perpetuating a meta-control mechanism.

>>17449717
Lol
>right wing hate
>gay guy that is interviewed says the younger the better
The left really does love diddling kids don't they?

>>17449529
naive or just thirsty for any form of “progress”?
probably both
in the end, just another layer of the matrix
keep pushing their narratives while toying with the levers of power
leftists got played like a fiddle
welcome to clown world, population: us